Wednesday, November 13, 2013

The Kingdom --1914?

A QUESTION:

In The Bible where Michael has war with Satan and throws him down to this earth you will say that was 1914. Well then that means that this world is 99 years old then. Is this right? And Adam must still be alive.

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MY REPLY:

Hello Timothy,
I'll try to cover your question thoroughly by taking a part at at time.
I will put your words in bold.
Your answer is found within the scriptures, so I hope you won't waste our time by just reading the words of my reply, which is worthless.

"In The Bible where Michael has war with Satan and throws him down to this earth"

You refer to Rev.12:7, where Satan and Michael are at war, as well as the "seed"/"angels" who follow each of these, also being at war. This war was first referred to at Gen.3:15.
Each army of "seed" has both, a mother and a father.
The seed of "Michael" are also the seed of the "woman".
Mothers are covenants (See Gal.4:24). There is the mother covenant of life (Gal.4:26) and the mother covenant of death (Isa.28:15).
This is true also of Satan's seed. He is their father (John8:44; 2Thess.2:3). Their mother is mentioned at Rev.17:5.

The "seed" of these are also the "angels" of Rev.12:7, because the original Greek translated as "angel", simply means "messenger". These angels are labeled messengers of the mother covenant they represent (Mal.3:1; Matt.11:10; 17:10,11,3; Rev.11:3,4; Zech.4:14,9) (Gal.4:26; Rev.3:12)

"you will say that was 1914"

I don't know where you heard that I say that Satan was hurled to the earth in 1914, because I know that this is a lying doctrine. Satan was judged in the first century by means of Christ's faithfulness (see John12:31; 16:11,33; 14:30). Satan even lost his power over Christ's Chosen ones back then (Luke10:18,19,20; Heb.12:23,22; Eph.2:6).
(Jer.31:11; Isa.49:24,25; Psalm18:17; Mark3:27; Rev.20:2) 
As the last ones of these prove faithful to death (Rev.6:9,10,11; 12:11), Satan's power will then become completely crushed (Rom.16:20; Rev.2:26,27; 12:5,10,11; Dan.2:34,35; Jer.1:10; 23:29; Matt.10:20; Rev.11:5; Jer.23:29; 5:14; Hosea6:5; Matt.24:51).

"Well then that means that this world is 99 years old then"

I don't follow your reasoning. When the Bible refers to the "world", it is referring to Satan's dominion. That began in Eden, long ago.
I hope I understand you right, if I assume you mean...
that if the kingdom of God began in 1914, that this kingdom of God would now be 99 years old. I hope that's what you mean, because I will reply to that.
Well,
the Bible tells us that Jesus began his rule in the midst of his enemies in the first Century (Ps.110:1,2; 1Pet.3:22; Matt.28:18; 1Cor.15:25,24; Eph.1:20,21,22,23).
Jesus already became king for a "thousand years", back then...(John18:33,36,37; Matt.21:1,2,3,4,5; Luke17:21). Revelation is symbolic [Rev.1:1 (see Greek); Matt.13:34,35], and this "thousand years" is symbolic (Rev.20:6; Eph.2:6,10; 1:3). It represents 10X10X10, and means a completed witness by one of God's sons (Isa.60:22; Luke 8:8; Gen.1:28; 1Cor.15:45,27; Acts1:8) regarding their personal testimony of truth (3X -2Cor.13:1) to the existing world (10) of Satan (1John5:19). 
This "thousand year" kingdom of Christ (John18:37; 2Cor.5:20; 1Cor.4:1) is not the same as God's eternal Kingdom; which arrives when all of it's administration of 144000 have been completely gathered and sealed, and the Great Crowd has been gleaned. 
Christ's headship and kingdom is of a limited time, during which his "body" (bride) is being assembled... (Rev.1:5,6; 19:16; Col.1:18; Ps.89:27; Heb.1:9,5,6; 2:16,5; Gen.28:14,12,13; Eph.1:22).
(http://jacobsladder-obadiah.blogspot.com/) ...and his enemies, conquered/subdued (1Cor.15:25; Ps.110:1-2).
In contrast, God's Kingdom is eternal (Dan.2:44,34,35; 7:17,27; Luke1:33; 1Cor.15:24; Rev.11:15; Gen.28:14; Rom.4:13; Gal.3:29; Eze.37:25), and commences after the enemies are subdued (Rev.12:10; 1Cor.15:24,28)..

Two basic facts derived from these scriptures, are that Christ's time-limited kingdom of a symbolic "thousand years", began in the first century. It ends when he hands it over to God, after all enemies of truth and life are conquered and judged (Matt.25:45,46; John3:18,19; 1Thess.5:5; John12:48,36; Rev.20:12,4; 2Pet.3:7; Rev.11:5,3; Luke10:16; Deut.18:18; Eze.2:5; Rev.12:11; Luke10:19; 2Cor.10:4,5; Rev.19:11,14,8; 17:14), and Christ's bride is completely collected together (Eph.1:10; 3:2; Rev.7:4; 14:1; Isa.2:3; Rev.21:2; Ps.110:2). 
In contrast to Christ's time-limited kingdom of servant kings and priests (symbolic "thousand years");
God's eternal kingdom does not begin until the entire administration of 144000 is sealed and installed. 
Neither began in 1914... obviously.

Two ways to easily disprove 1914, is to look at two scriptures. 

The first is found at Rev.12:10.

It reads:
"Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, because the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down."
So tell me....Which occurs first? Is it the kingdom...or the "casting down"?
"NOW...the kingdom...BECAUSE accuser HAS BEEN cast down".

We are clearly being told that the kingdom begins, 
because Satan is cast down first.
"Jehovah's Witnesses" teach, that "the first action Christ takes as king of the new kingdom, is to cast Satan down". 
Rev.12:10 proves that this is error. 
The kingdom cannot begin until after Satan is left with no more accusations against the brothers of Christ (co-heirs of the kingdom). 
 Why? 
Because when all accusations against them have been exhausted, they are at that point...all proven faithful and sealed.
This is precisely why the kingdom can begin then...because it now has it's full number of sealed kings. Their being sealed as faithful, is the means by which Satan is conquered and cast down (Rev.12:10,11).
Christ waits for all his sealed brothers to also conquer Satan, before GOD'S rule begins (1Cor.15:24). 
This is when that completed kingdom administration [which was being gathered since the first century (Eph.1:9,10,14,18; Matt.13:37,38,39; John4:35,36) is completed (Rev.6:9,10,11; 20:4; 14:1; 7:4) and appointed over ALL Christ's belongings (Matt.25:23; 24:26,27)
This takes place at the scripture we started with...Rev.12:10. 
I hope you can see that the scriptures contain no indication of 1914. It never will, because the "seven times" used to calculate this year, are supposed to be applied symbolically, not literally (But this is another subject).

The second scripture which disproves that the kingdom began in 1914, is found at Matt.24:3,8.
The "pangs of distress" Jesus spoke of, was actually worded "labor pains" (See original Greek of Mark13:8 also).
"Jehovah's Witnesses" again switch the order here. 
They say that the labor pains we see occurring in the world around us, are proof that the kingdom was born in 1914. (War,famine,earthquakes,etc.)

Now stop there and think about this....
What happens first?....
Labor pains...or birth???
How can the kingdom be born at the start of labor pains, and not after???
Once again, "Jehovah's Witnesses" switch the order. 
Why are they making the arrival of the kingdom pre-mature?

This deception was prophesied to occur (2Thess.2:1,2,3; Luke21:8,9) 
...which is why Christ's visible arrival (and the blessings of God's completed kingdom -Matt.13:31,32; Rev.7:4; 14:1) seem to be delaying. 
This premature kingdom announcement, comes "as if from us" (2Thess.2:2), meaning, "as if from" the apostles (Rev.2:2; 2Cor.11:13; Matt.24:4,5,24,25). 
It is the wicked steward over God's household of anointed virgins, that expects and teaches them this premature arrival (Matt.25:5; 24:48,49; Hab.2:3).
Rev.12:1,2,5 makes clear...that the kingdom's birth occurs after labor pains. That birth of the completed number of heirs, causes the kingdom of this world, 
to become the kingdom of our God, (Rev.11:15; 12:10)
and God's will to take place...
as it already is in heaven 
(among those sealed -Eph.2:6; Heb.12:22,23; Luke10:20),
...even to take place on earth (Matt.6:10).

But we are not done.
Who has labor pains....Satan's world...or the woman in heaven?
Satan has been able to mislead everyone with events taking place in the very world he controls (1John5:19; John12:31). God's Holy Kingdom is not being born from this demonic source (Job14:4; John18:36).
(pearl-laborpains.blogspot.com)
(pearl-sign.blogspot.com)

"And Adam must still be alive"


Your logic eludes me. I don't know what Adam's lifespan has to do with the kingdom's birth, 1914, or the idea that the kingdom is 99 years into it's reign.

I would be happy to reply to this statement, if you will please clarify what you mean.

If I have misunderstood any of your question...please clarify and re-submit it, and I would be happy to re-consider.

Thank you for your good question. I hope my reply is satisfactory. The cited scriptures are where the essence of your answers lie, so please don't follow up until you have considered them.
God grant you His favor, through knowledge and peace.
Love in Christ,
Pearl


Follow-Up 

QUESTION: 
You are not a Jehovah Witness are you? You are right that they really come up with strange doctrines. It seems like that you agree with me based upon your answers. I find it very hard to believe in the 1914 doctrine. And as you can see because I was following their reasoning I was even more confused. You have shown me that I am not the only one who feels this way about their teachings.
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My answer to this is;
I was a "Jehovah's Witness" for 35 years. I was thrown out for putting truth as more important than subjection to lies, and subjection to the dominating men who spawn them. The faithful must be in subjection to Christ. He is the Head of the Congregation among the faithful.
However, I hope you will allow me to correct one thing you say...
I am now one of Yhwh's Witnesses, more than I ever was.
You see...It is God who has the right to label His own witnesses.
He does this, as revealed at Isa.43:10.
Yet taking that title for oneself, does not make it true, nor does it obligate God to accept it (Jer.25:29).

The very scripture which "Jehovah's Witnesses" use to validate their claim, is Isa.43:10. But a closer examination of that verse, disproves what they assume.
You see, there it is revealed that God "chooses" these individuals. These are called "chosen ones". What does He choose them to do? That answer is found in the context, at Isa.43:21. A brief comparison of that verse, with 1Pet.2:9,10,5 makes plain, that God's authentic witnesses, are God's "chosen" priesthood.
This is why, when I refer to those known as "Jehovah's Witnesses", I always put that title in "quotes", because this claim, is false. 
When I am referring to the genuine priesthood of "chosen" witnesses, I will simply write, Yhwh's Witnesses.
I am relieved to learn of your accurate understanding.
I hope you will pursue gaining more, resulting in life eternal.
God continue to bless you with His Spirit,
Pearl

SECOND FOLLOW-UP:




Dear Timothy,
I see that you tried to reason with "Bro DW".
 I thought since he did not get the sense of the scriptures I cited, but rather dismissed what they reveal, I would follow up for you.
He stated:
"So think about it why does the labour pains have to come before the birth on two SEPERATE women?? One's an Earthly Woman and one's Heavenly. Two separate women have two separate labour pains and two separate births. According to Pearls argument everyone on the Earth is exactly the same age, all women get pregnant at the same time and all give birth at the same time. Nonsense!!!
It's the birth of the heavenly woman that causes the labour pains for the earthly woman. The labour pains are for the "Earthly Woman" not the Heavenly one!!"

I will remind you of what Rev.12:1,2 actually said...
"Now a great sign appeared IN HEAVEN: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth."
The labor pains, according to God, take place with a heavenly woman, not an earthly one. This does not necessarily mean that those who represent this woman on earth (but whose names are sealed in the heavens) do not have labor pains, because they do (Gal.4:19; Luke10:20; Isa.4:3; Heb.12:23)...but it does mean that these labor pains of the Kingdom's birth (it's completed number of kings), are not coming from Satan's world. (John18:36; Job.14:4)
DW then quotes Rev.12:13 to refer to the same heavenly woman as being on earth...
Rev 12:13 
"Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth,+ it persecuted the woman+ WHO GAVE BIRTH to the male child".
He is absolutely right...as I showed you in the scriptures above, that those anointed who are sealed into this covenant, become this covenant above and represent it on earth (Eph.2:6; Gal.4:26; Rev.3:12; Isa.42:6; Gal.4:19; Luke10:20; Isa.4:3; Heb.12:23).
Again, these labor pains are found within these holy ones who are of heaven (see previous scriptures)....not within Satan's world which is where "JW's" point to for the fulfillment of these "labor pains".
(The problem here is being caused by viewing "heaven" and "earth" as physical places. This fleshly view is not accurate, and prevents understanding of these symbols.)
If you would like to read about the actual woman having these labor pains, and how the scriptures identify the spiritual fulfillment of the signs Jesus gave, I hope you will consider 

DW then says...
"Can you really argue that Satan being in heaven prevented Jesus being crowned King?? How can you say that the basis of Jesus kingship is Satan being hurled to Earth?? It's nonsense!! This is what the scriptures say is the basis of Jesus Kingship"

Of course, I never said these things. As you know, I did say that while Satan retains his power, he has opposed the 144000 from being sealed and crowned, which is after all, what the true arrival of the kingdom awaits (Rev.6:9,10,11; 7:4; 14:1). Satan has demanded to test these ones. "Day and night" he makes accusations against them, trying to prevent their receiving the final seal of God's approval (Rev.12:10,17; Luke22:31; Rom.16:20). Jesus is not awaiting his own crown, but rather the crowning of the full number of his co-rulers (Rev.3:11; 20:4).
Poor DW is still under Satan's blinding curse, as an agent of the Abyss (Rev.9:3,11).

As far as DW refuting the order of Satan's needing to be cast down by the chosen ones, before the kingdom victory for the completed 144000 (not the victory for Christ), the scriptures cannot be nullified (Rev.12:10,11). Christ has already been ruling over his body. But he has not been ruling over everything since 1914, without all his co-heirs. DW has totally forgotten that the kingdom administration is more than Christ (Eph.1:9,10,11,12; 2:6; Rev.14:1).


Satan attained authority and power when Adam and Even sinned (Gen.3:13,16,17,18,19,23,24; Heb.2:14; 1John5:19). He exploited the justice of God to achieve his own purposes (Gen.3:1,2,3,4,5,6). It was granted by God for Satan to rule this world (Rom.13:1; John19:11), until a just basis could be satisfied to remove Satan's authority and power (Gen.3:15).

When DW asserts that Satan does not have to be conquered in order to re-establish the Kingdom of God over all creation, and to restore creation's freedom from sin and death; he exposes his lack of understanding about the requirements of God's justice. 

If it were not necessary for Satan to lose his world dominion by means of God's justice, then God must have temporarily subjected creation to cruel corruption, for nothing (Rom.8:19,20,21,22,23,24,25). God is love (1John4:8), and when he abandoned creation to Satan because of Adam's choice, it was according to His justice (Gen.2:16,17). 
The establishment of God's Kingdom, and the fall of Satan, also must be by God's justice. 
So when DW says,
"How can you say that the basis of Jesus kingship is Satan being hurled to Earth??"...
he reveals that he lacks understanding as to why Jesus Christ was required to suffer and die (2Tim.1:10; Eph.1:7; John1:12; Heb.2:3,4,6,17; 9:26; Rom.5:17).

Satan's fall from power requires God's justice to be satisfied...unless you believe that God is unnecessarily cruel, and wants us to suffer and die for no reason. 
It was necessary for Christ to be faithful under test, if he hoped to dethrone Satan (1John3:8; John12:31; 14:30; 16:11; Heb.2:14). This conquering of Satan was necessary, before Jesus Christ could be crowned king (John16:33; Rev.3:21). 
The same requirement stands for all those called ones, who hope to join Christ and be sealed as a kingdom heir (Acts14:22; 1John2:13; Rev.12:11; Mark8:35; 2Tim.2:12; Rom.8:17; Rev.3:21).


As you can see by the foregoing scriptures...Christ's faithfulness to death did cause Satan's fall from authority and power. Yet Christ does not rule alone. Each and every heir must also conquer Satan. It is their individual victories to be completed, that Christ and all creation await. Each member of the 144000 must follow the footsteps of Christ...all the way to a faithful death for truth. Each of them must overcome the temptations, tests, and persecutions by Satan, before being declared victorious by their Master, Christ.

I hope that if DW's ignorance caused you any confusion, that these new thoughts may help to clarify. We should pray for all those still captive and under the power of this Great Tribulation of spiritual test, that as many as possible will be saved from this blinding deception, which has been delivered by means of Satan, the false prophet, and the wild beast (Rev.9:1-3; 16:14; 13:11-18; 2Thess.2:4,9; Matt.24:4,5,24,25; Rev.13:7). Few will be saved from this blindness (Rev.13:8; 12:9; Matt.24:4,5,24,25; 7:13,14).

2 comments:

  1. Greetings Sister Pearl !
    I am glad you go on in this battle , with God's power !
    My old post agrees with your words
    http://brothersofchrist.forumsland.com/brothersofchrist-about374.html

    Be blessed ,
    rus v.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rus, I have left my response for you and all readers, on the main page,
      located at:
      http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/11/satans-fall-heaven-seven-spirits-of-god.html
      It was posted on November 15, 2013

      Delete

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