Saturday, August 29, 2015

Tormented Forever in the Lake of Fire

ADDITION to"Will the Wicked Suffer?"
as follows...

If you are familiar with Rev.14:11...
 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
 "The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
 ...and feel confused by this seeming contradiction to the wicked being destroyed;
then please keep in mind that Rev.1:1 states that "Revelation" is written in symbolic terms 
(See Greek of Rev.1:1).
What does it mean to be tormented in the "lake of fire" forever?
Rev.20:14 tells us...
 "Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Why "second" death, instead of first death?
Jesus said,
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell ("Gehenna")." (Matt.10:28)

The first death, is physical ("body").
The "second death", is by the One who judges (and can kill) the soul.
The basis for that judgment, is by means of the teachings of Christ....
Jesus said;
 "There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my wordsthe very words I have spoken will judge them at the last day." (John12:48)

How are the damning words of Christ, the same as the "lake of fire"?
Jesus Christ IS the Word of God. All God's teachings are made available to us, 
to accept or reject,
by means of God's "Word", the Bible (John1:1,14).
Note what the words of God (through Christ) are compared to...

 "Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?" (Jer.23:29)
 "Therefore I cut you in pieces with my prophets, killed you with the words of my mouth-- then my judgments go forth like the sun." (Hosea 6:5)
 "Therefore this is what the LORD God Almighty says: "Because the people have spoken these words, I will make my words in your mouth a fire and these people the wood it consumes." (Jer.5:14NIV)
 "And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner." (Rev.11:5)

I hope you discern from the foregoing scriptures,
that the "lake of fire" / "hell",
are God's judgments / condemnation,
by means of God's Word ("fire").
Those who do not obey the Bible, are judged worthy of the "second death" ("Lake of Fire").
According to Jesus, this condemnation by God,
is the death of the soul. (Matt.10:28)
That death results from a loss of God's favor, and His abandonment of you, to the Destroyer (Satan). When condemnation is based upon the standards set out by God's Word, one is consigned to that Word's just condemnation ("fire").
One's works are compared to that perfect standard, and the day of light exposes God's verdict 
(Luke 8:17; 1Cor.3:13-15; 4:5; 2Thess.1:7; Rev.20:12; Dan.7:9,22).

God repays the wicked with their own wickedness.
(for scriptural proof, see: wicked-suffer?)
    (The wicked do not burn people forever, 
     so according to God's perfect justice, 
     neither will they literally burn forever.)
"Jehovah's Witnesses" are taught that God is not sadistic, and does not desire to burn people forever.
The basis of that "Jehovah's Witness" belief, is Jer.7:31, where God says....
 "They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I did not command, nor would such a thing ever enter my mind."

The "the Valley of 'Ben Hinnom' " (Hebrew) 
       (where children were burned as a sacrifice to the false God, "Molech"),
is another name for the place "Gehenna" 
("Ben Hinnom" translated into Greek), 
and is the same place that most Bible translators, translate as "Hell". 
"Gehenna" is the word Jesus used, at Matt.10:28, above (that is usually translated as "hell").
In the King James version, Rev.20:14 reads;
 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
Note that "hell" is also cast into the lake of fire. Is "hell" cast into hell?
No. "Hell", is also destroyed forever. 
Yet this Greek word at Rev.20:14 was not "Gehenna". 
It was "Hades". This is the realm of those considered spiritually dead 
       (also the abyss/sea/deep/"Sheol" -Hebrew). 
It contains both those physically living, and physically dead.
When God's judgment of the "spiritual dead" is completed, there will be no further need for a holding pen, 
for those who await God's condemnation ("fire")(2Pet.2:4; 3:7).
Those left standing after the final judgment, will live forever,
because they have repented, and have obeyed the words of Christ (Luke8:11,15; 1John2:14).
 "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life." (John6:63).
Those who have no room for Christ's word in their hearts (John8:37,40; Acts3:22-24), will remain under God's condemnation ("fire"), forever...
their legacy of shame will last forever, as recorded in the everlasting Word of God, which prophesied about them aforetime (Isa.46:10; 40:8; 48:3; Acts 15:18; 2Pet.1:21; Mark13:31; 2Pet.3:7) (Dan.12:2; Isa.66:24; Rev.20:12-15).


Friday, August 7, 2015

When are the full 144,000 completed?

What follows is a post from the Forum.
I thought I would also post it here, for the added benefit of the pop-up scriptures. The forum did not allow me to make edits and additions.
Please read the scriptures as you come to them.

Dear Daz and Peely,
I think I have been given the answer that may address your questions:
(Daz)-- "May I ask, do you think/believe that all of the chosen are aware that they ARE indeed Chosen or do you think that there are some who are still to be awoken to this. Are there ones STILL being Chosen/Anointed?"
(Peely)-- "I wonder the same things that you asked, Daz. Are there ones still being anointed?"
Please let me know if my reply here, is sufficient. I was given Rev.6:9-11 and Rev.19:2, and will explain below, how they provide our answer.
I have read and meditated on those verses before, but never saw this aspect of the information they contain. I am amazed at how a deeper consideration of God's words, contain so many riches within such seeming simplicity.

The first verses, are Rev.6:9-11...
"When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been."

[Here we are told that those sealed (given white robe) are those who have been slain (
Rev.12:11; 20:4) (Rom.6:3-5; Phil.3:10), for their faithful testimony of truth

ALL ("everyone" / "anyone") who slay the faithful, believe that they are serving God (John 16:2)... including the Wild Beast (Rev.11:7; 13:15). Therefore, these "killers" (Jer.4:31; Isa.42:14; 1:21), are not secular, but religious, just as was the case with Christ (Matt.15:24; John 15:22-25; John 15:18-20; 8:40) (John 19:4,6,10-12,15). We are cast out as apostate, just as he was (Mark 13:13; Rev.11:7-10; Heb.13:13). We must follow the same path of being tested "in the wilderness" by Satan (Matt.4:1; Rev.12:14; 17:3) (Luke 22:31; John 16:33; 16:2-4, 16:20-22; Matt.24:8-9, 21-25), in order to finish our course, prove faithful (or not), and be sealed in the heavens (1Pet. 2:21; Rev.14:4). These facts establish to us, that if the opportunity to take this full path of Christ is past, so is the opportunity to be chosen, tested, and sealed.]

So the question is, when is that opportunity, over and past?
Please focus on the bold words of Rev.6:10...
"And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Here we are pointedly being told, that the slain are asking when their blood will be avenged.

The reply? (Rev.6:11)
11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed."
Here, we are pointedly told, that the blood will be avenged,
when the number to be sealed is completed.
From these two facts, we glean that when we see God avenging the blood of his servants, we know the number is completed.
Do you also deduce this, and see it clearly?

Okay, now the other scripture I was given, is Rev.19:2...
"For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.
2Kings 9:7; Rev.2:20)

Here we are clearly taught, that when we see that the harlot is judged by God, it is God's vengeance upon her, for shedding the blood of His servants, whose deaths, she ordered (Rev.13:11,15; 18:24).
When we see the Beast and ten kings, turn on the Harlot, it is because God has directed it, to avenge the blood of His servants
Rev.17:16-17;  2Thess. 1:6; Rev.18:20,6).

When we see this occur, we know, that all those to be sealed, are already so.
There is no more choosing, testing, or sealing. This also infers, that the ten kings who remained with the Beast, are also sealed as having lost their crown.

They voluntary surrendered it, to the abomination in which they put their faith (Rev.17:13; Rom.1:25), instead of subjecting their authority and power, to God (Rev.4:10-11).

Among us, we already perceive God's judgment of the Harlot. Therefore, among us who have been slain by the beast, we are either already sealed, 

If we have not completed this path of Christ... we still need to. 
Once the Harlot is attacked, it is past the point of being chosen, tested, or sealed, by being killed by the Beast (Rev.11:7; 6:9), for our testimony to God's wayward Nation. 
This does not mean that the opportunity is past, for all Christ's disciples (Chosen and not) to join in that testimony. Jesus told the faithful anointed, to direct all Christ's disciples to perform the same commands of Christ which they themselves obey and perform, including bearing witness to truth (Matt.28:19-20;  2Tim. 4:2;  1Cor. 9:16; Rom.1:16;  1Tim. 4:16; Rev.22:17). 
In this way, the one directly sent by God, is accepted, recognized, and heeded by all such disciples (John 13:20; Matt.10:40-41; Rom.6:17;  2Cor. 2:14;  2Tim. 1:13;  1Tim. 4:15-16).

It is necessary for all who become heirs, to accept the Steward Christ has appointed over his household, whether that Steward proves faithful or not (Gal.4:1-6,7-8; Eze.28:9;  2Thess. 2:4) (Matt.24:45-46, 48-51; Hosea 6:5; Rev.11:5) It is only after accepting the authority of wicked steward/false prophet/Harlot, and it's Beast, that one may be symbolically killed (disfellowshipped) by that steward's Beast (for taking a stand for the truth), 
thereby completing the course of Christ without a physical death being necessary. 
One can not be symbolically killed (disfellowshipped), if one was never baptized into the Beast.
One cannot be symbolically killed (disfellowshipped) for a testimony to the truth of Christ, if already expelled for genuine sin (1Pet. 2:19-22; 3:17).
I suppose that if one had been chosen and did not accept subjection under God's wicked Steward [and become baptized into the beast, and then "killed" (disfellowshipped) by the Beast], it may be possible that a physical death awaits some for carrying out this final witness.
If such should occur, the requirement for becoming sealed could be satisfied in a literal way, enabling that one to complete this full course of Christ, before the demise of the Harlot. Once her demise is executed, the door to join the "144000" is shut. God's vengeance has already been released on the Harlot, indicating that the group is completed (Rev.6:10-11; 19:2).


Additional Pages for Study (coming soon)