Wednesday, October 30, 2013

The Original Sin


Good day sister D
I just read something interesting about why Satan succeeded in deceiving Eve. 

1. In your view why did Satan succeed in deceiving Eve and not Adam (if He did try to deceive him)

2. What does it mean to know "good and evil"?

3. Why didn't they realize that they were naked before they ate the fruit?

Lastly can you please provide me with the link about what the trees in Genesis represent (you wrote that a couple of months ago)

Many thanks


Dear Modise,

Eph.5:8-12 reads:
"For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret."

The reason I raise this scripture, is because it relates to the details of Adam and Eve's sin.
How so?

"The fruit of light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth" (Eph.5:9).
Keep in mind that this is not speaking of literal fruit, but of teaching/words (Matt.12:33,34,35,36,37; 7:20; Heb.13:15)
The acceptable "fruit of light" is the "truth", and is only "goodness". It consists in "all righteousness", never guiding one into wrong thoughts or behavior. 

Such "light" results in life, eternally (John1:1,4; 8:12; 12:46; Prov.11:30; 10:11; 3:13,18). 
The source of this "fruit of light", is the "Tree of Life", the "Word". 
All it's wise "fruit", is "goodness".

What about the other "tree"? The "tree of knowledge" was of both good AND BAD (Gen.3:22). 
In knowing both, a comparison can be made, and a knowledge of how these differ from each other, is gained. When one acts upon evil information, innocence is gone.

The Bible reveals that Satan's mouth, also bears "fruit"/teachings (Rev.16:13; 12:15; Col.2:8; 2Cor.11:3; 1Tim.6:20,21; Gen.3:4,5; Rev.2:24; James3:15). Just as Jesus is "the way", and his teachings are the road to life; Satan's deceptions are the road which leads to destruction (2Thess.2:9,10; Matt.7:13; Rev.12:9). All of Satan's teachings/"fruit" are lies, darkness, error/sin, and they lead to death (John8:44; Heb.2:14; James1:15). To take in knowledge of such evil teachings, is to be deceived. Eve herself obtained this falsely-called knowledge (Gen.3:13; 1Tim.6:20; 2Cor.11:14) which resulted in her death (Rom.5:12; Gen.2:17).

With that introduction accomplished, I will try to answer each of your questions.

1. My view is worthless, but I will forward for your consideration some scriptural observations.
Why was Eve deceived, but not Adam (Gen.3:13; 1Tim.2:14; 2Cor.11:3)?  The only reasonable way to discover this, is to examine what differences existed between Adam and Eve. Only one of those differences can account for a difference in response to Satan's beguile. 

Adam was directly warned by God (Gen.2:16,17). Adam alone named all the creatures that God brought before him (Gen.2:19). To "name" something, reflects your authority to determine it's use and purpose 
(Rev.7:3; 14:1; 2:17; Isa.62:2; Rev.3:12; Isa.1:26; 56:5). Adam's kingdom over the planet and all life on it, was bestowed before Eve appeared (Gen.1:26,28). Eve was for Adam, not Adam for Eve (Gen.2:18,22; 1Cor.11:7,8,9). This "Law" is consistent, even within the spiritual symbolism of "women" (Gal.4:24; 2Cor.11:2; Rev.22:17; Eph.5:23,24).

 We are told that previous to the act of sin, there is temptation (James1:14,15,16; Gen.4:6,7). What would have tempted Eve, and not so much Adam? The things Satan offered Eve hold a clue for us.

 Satan first said, "Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
  "Did God really say"
  Here Satan highlighted, that Eve likely received this warning second-hand. Satan introduced the idea, that perhaps she should not believe all she hears from her husband...Perhaps he is just trying to be overly controlling, exerting a unfounded superiority, dominance, and arrogance. 
How did Eve feel about being a lesser one? Satan would bring this issue out on the table for exploitation. After all, why didn't God tell her directly also? Why was she "out of the loop"? Would she feel "passed over", perhaps humiliated?

  Next Satan promotes the idea, that indeed she has been made a fool by Adam...
"You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman." (Gen.3:4).
Now the question was raised in Eve's mind....
Why would God and Adam lie to Eve about the Tree of Knowledge"? 

Perhaps to foment increasing jealousy of the superiority of both God and Adam, Satan lies about the purported motive for keeping Eve in ignorance...
“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Adam did not have the same motive to be jealous. God was generous to Adam, giving him everything. This included a warning to avoid Satan and his lies. God could read Satan's motives, even before Satan sinned.
Eve enjoyed all the same blessings but one...To be first and primary.
According to Satan...If Eve bucked her imposed restriction...she could take first place in something ahead of Adam....
"knowing good and evil" (Gen.3:6).

1Tim.2:14 tells us that the man was not deceived, but Eve was, and she sinned first. According to scripture, this occurred because she acted upon a wrong desire (James1:14,15), which likely resulted from her occupying a different role than Adam (1Cor.11:7,8,9). These roles are not exchangeable (Deut.22:5). Although Eve's divine role was perfect for her innate needs and happiness; I suspect that Satan was able to exploit this difference.

Another worthy consideration is a look at what the "fruit"/teaching/lie of Satan actually was. What wicked guidance was it, and what wicked deed did it direct?
I believe this brings us to your second and third questions...
"What does it mean to know 'good and evil'?"
"Why didn't they realize that they were naked before they ate the fruit?"

2.&3. While innocent, we do not "know" shame and guilt (Titus 1:15). To feel shame and guilt, is to "know evil" and it's contrast with "good". It occurs after sin.

This is consistent with your third question. Adam and Eve felt no shame in their nakedness, before their sinning. Although sexually active, they felt guiltless (Gen.2:24,25).
  Interestingly, after their sin (into which they were guided by Satan's counsel), they each felt both shame and guilt at their deviance from God's guidance (Gen.3:7,10,11).
  Whatever sin Satan's lie drove Eve to commit, in defiance of a natural, innocent, and pure sexuality;
she shared it with Adam. Both were tempted into being lead by Satan's guidance, rather than remain innocent of such "evil" corruption. That sin is associated with an awareness of being ashamed of their sexuality (Gen.2:24,25; 3:7). 
  God gave Eve to Adam as a companion, helper, and mate. This was to be a romantic and sexual relationship. This was clear to Adam, and he knew it was clear to God. Yet before sin, this purpose carried with it, no compromise of integrity (Gen.2:22,23,24,25), nor feelings of guilt or shame.

I personally feel that my personal deduction about the nature of the first sin, gains weight, when we see Adam's response...
 "He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” 
And God said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?” The man said, “The woman you put here with me —she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it." (Gen.3:10,11,12).
Adam pointed back to God's gift of a wife, and that he merely indulged in what God gave him...
trying to diminish the fact that his actions were directed by the teachings/"fruit", of the forbidden tree.

The Bible does not offer precise details of why Adam and Eve became ashamed of their sexuality following guidance by Satan. I believe this brings us back to Eph.5:12...
"It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret."
God's clean Word will leave it to what is necessary.
We are not ignorant of what demons can desire (Gen.6:1,2,4; Jude 1:6,7; Rom.1:25,26; 2Pet.2:4,7,10).

Remember the warning the Chosen Ones are given, at 2Cor.11:2,3?
"For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin. But I am afraid that, as the serpent seduced Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ."

Clearly, Paul's concern was to preserve the virginity, chastity and purity of Christ's collective bride.
He warns that it's loss is associated with the same seduction of Eve by Satan.
Of course we know that the virginity Paul is speaking of here, is symbolic (Rev.14:4,5).
Yet it would not be a symbolic loss of sexual cleanness, that would cause Adam and Eve to sew fig leaves together to cover their literal sexual parts.

I will assume you comprehend what my own view is, regarding the original sin, so that I don't have to "mention it" further (Eph.5:12).

Lastly, here is the link you requested. It will provide more scriptures regarding the Bible's symbolic use of "trees" and their "fruit", 
including other uses of the term, "tree of life". Those scriptures aid us in obtaining a deeper and more mature knowledge of Genesis, chapters 1-3.

Thank you for your fine question.
If the answer remains wanting, please follow up.
Love in Christ,





Thank you for the answer you gave, just wanted to draw your attention to Gen.3:6,7
"She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves".

Why did Eve's eyes not open open up immediately after she ate the fruit but only after Adam ate?

My Reply:

I am going to add in parenthesis, the Hebrew transliteration of certain parts of these verses.
Gen.3:6,7 reads:
"When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some (she is taking from him) and ate it (and she is giving). She also (gave?) some (and she also IS GIVING) to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened (and·they-are-being-unclosed eyes-of two-of·them), and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves."

The first point is that the Hebrew describes the fruit as coming from Satan, not from the literal tree.
The second point, is that the Hebrew describes Eve as giving something away WHILE she is accepting, rather than how it is translated, "and ate it".
The third point, is that the Hebrew describes the offering of fruit to Adam at the same time that she herself is eating it. It is not originally written in the past tense as commonly translated.

  Yet even if the opening of Eve's eyes did take longer than Adam, this need not be perplexing.
This would indicate that she did not perceive the wrong as quickly as Adam.
This is in perfect harmony with the fact that Eve was deceived, and Adam was not (1Tim.2:14).

The opening of Eve's eyes many not have occurred, until Adam felt his own guilt and shame. It makes sense that he might feel it first, since he knew this was wrong (Eve was deceived). Seeing Adam's shame could certainly remove the ignorance and innocence from Eve's eyes.

Certainly Eve would lose esteem in Adam's regard, when Adam realized the unclean state of his wife before she herself did. She may not have perceived her unclean state, until she saw it reflected in her husband's own disapproving eyes. no time was Adam deceived about what Eve had chosen. Eve was deceived.
Even Satan said their eyes are bound to be opened (literally, "in the day of") (Gen.3:5). This indicates an inescapable consequence, but it does not indicate that this had to take place instantly, nor at the same time with Adam and Eve as individuals.
When it states that both their eyes were opened, it does not specify the timing of either, only that this realization took place with both of them.
For example,
if both you and your wife learned something on the same day, and I simply said that you both learned it,
I am not necessarily saying that you each learned it at the exact same moment.

So to answer your question concisely...
Whatever the corrupt "fruit"/guidance was, that Eve shared with Adam; Adam was aware that Eve had previously, privately accepted the same from Satan, first.
Eve would certainly detect the change in Adam's regard and approval of her, as he proceeded to "taste" the "fruit" that Eve had already "eaten" from Satan.  Eve's eyes would "open", as she realized a loss of her husband's esteem for her.
She would then realize that her choice had caused harm to their marriage, and was "bad".
Adam was not deceived. His eyes were opened to shame and guilt ("good and evil") as soon as his misdeed was accomplished. Eve was deceived. She did not see her wrongdoing as such, likely until she saw Adam's own reaction to his sin, as well as his subsequent reaction to Eve, changing his perception of her as pure.

Is this aspect of human nature,
(Keep in mind--a husband's approval is a natural concern for wives -1Cor.7:34).
combined with what the scriptures tell us,
recognizable to you? Does this examination answer what you are asking?
Please let me know.

Remember...Eve was deceived...Adam was not. This would certainly affect the timing of the realization that they were naked, and should feel ashamed.
Yet the Bible is not specific as to the timing of each one's realization. It only states the consequence as occurring to both Adam and Eve.
Whether that consequence occurred at the exact same time for both,
or if there were moments between them...the Bible does not specify in the original language.

I will also mention what someone else wrote to me. They thought that this had to be literal fruit, because of Eve bringing some of the fruit to Adam to also eat. For this reason, I will address this question also.
This fact does not strike down a symbolic interpretation.
If we go according to the Bible's meaning of symbolic trees and fruit, the description of this event applies well.
For example,
If you learn a teaching from a prophet ("fruit"), and you take what you have learned and share it with someone else, this would be symbolically described just as Gen.3:6 teaches that Eve shared the fruit with Adam.

Here is more information:


Sunday, October 27, 2013

The "Legal Right"

Below is a link to an scriptural commentary, written by my brother in Christ. I wanted to offer it to those who read here. If the wording seems odd, it is because it was originally written in Portuguese.
If your PC does not translate it automatically, I will also leave a link below where you can copy it to be translated.


When you are done reading it,
I would like to add to the expressions of this brother...

Pilate asked Jesus, if he was a king.
"Early in the morning the chief priests with the elders and scribes and the whole Council, immediately held a consultation; and binding Jesus, they led Him away and delivered Him to Pilate. Pilate questioned Him, "Are You the King of the Jews?" And He answered him, "It is as you say." (Mark15:1,2; Luke17:20,21)
  What are some of the things that made Jesus a king during his earthly life?

"Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval." (John6:27)

"But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins." So he said to the paralyzed man, "Get up, take your mat and go home." (Matt.9:6)

"For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it."
"And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man." (John5:21,27)

"For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him." (John17:2)

"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father." (John10:17,18)

"For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself." (John5:26)

"I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace. In the world you have trouble and suffering, but take courage--I have conquered the world." (John16:33)

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil" (Heb.2:14)

"I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades." (Rev.1:18)

John 18: "33 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”
34 “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”
35 “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”
36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth obeys my voice.” 
--- Jesus began ruling in the first century (Luke 22:69; Ps.110:1; 1Cor.15:25)
As Brother Paulo highlighted, the kingly authority and power of Christ was not displayed in a worldly way, in association with Satan's world, but it was spiritually displayed. How then would the kingly authority of Christ's brothers be manifested, during the "Thousand Years", while they themselves offer life to others?

Jesus said that "as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom", "I make a covenant with you" (Luke22:29). Christ's brothers would freely receive the power to exercise a similar authority as Christ's (Matt.10:8; John14:12; Rev.3:21; 1John5:4; Eph.2:6).
Would they have the same kingly authority Jesus has, while he was a king on earth?
Only if they endure the same tests, successfully (Luke22:28; Gal.6:17; Rom.8:17; 2Tim.2:11,12; James 5:11; Matt.5:10,11,12) and are thereby, sealed as obedient slaves of God (Deut.11:18; Rev.14:1; Heb.10:16).

It would be good to compare the kingship of Christ and the kingship of his brothers, by means of the scriptures cited above.

"on him (Christ) God the Father has placed his seal of approval." (John6:27)
Can chosen ones attain to God's seal?
Not all those "Chosen" are "sealed" as faithful. But some are.
(Rom.6:17; Matt.22:14; 2Pet.3:14,17; Hag.2:23; Rev.7:2,3; Eze.9:3,4; 2Cor.1:22; Rev.14:1; 3:12)
(Matt.7:21,24,25; Rev.22:14; Ps.100:4,3; 1Pet.2:10,9; Rev.22:2; Ps.92:12,13,14,15; Eph.1:3,19,20,21; 2:6; Rev.12:5)

"forgive sins" (Matt.9:6)
Can the sealed Chosen forgive sins?

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matt.16:19)
  What did Jesus mean here? What would be "bound" and what would be "loosed"?
"If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." (John20:23) (The Greek for "forgive", is "loosed".) (Rev.1:5)
Those bound as obedient slaves of sin, could be set free (Rom.6:16,17,18,22; 8:2; John8:32; James 5:14-15; ) through obedience to the word of life being declared by Christ's ambassadors (1Cor.6:2-3; 2Tim.1:7,8,9,10,11,12,13; Rom.16:25,26; Eph.3:10,17,18,19,20,21; 1:18,19,20,21,22,23; 2Cor.5:19,20).
These sealed ambassadors have been given life first (Rev.20:6).
Those who receive them and their sayings/"fruit", subsequently receive life (John13:20; 6:63; Rev.20:5; 22:17).

This all occurs during the symbolic "Thousand Years"....during the "day" of judgment and salvation. Judgment for the weeds, and salvation for the wheat. This is the "Thousand Year" day of harvest. (Isa.49:8; 2Cor.6:2,1; 2Pet.3:8; Ps.90:4; Matt.25:13; 2Pet.3:7; Rev.16:13,14,15,16; 19:19; Joel3:2,12; Zech.14:3,4,5; 3:8; Rev.16:1; 17:14; 20:4,7,8,9; 11:5; Jer.5:14; 23:29)

"gives life to whom he is pleased to give it" (John5:21)
Can the sealed Chosen offer life?
We have already seen above, that the Chosen have been given authority to forgive sins.
Forgiveness of sins mean life, but continuing in sin means death (Rom.6:23; John8:11,12; 5:14; Gal.6:8; Eph.2:5). Therefore, with sins forgiven and left behind, light and life begins.
But here are direct scriptures, regarding what the Chosen have authority to impart:

"Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.   By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive". (John1:12; Rom.8:14; John7:38,39)
(1John1:1; 1Cor.3:16; Rom.8:9,10,11)
That spirit/living water, would "flow from within" (John7:38; Prov.4:23; Matt.12:35,33,34; Prov.10:11,20,21; Matt.7:17,20; Prov.12:14; 3:13,18) "to impart everlasting life" 
(1Tim.4:16; John4:14; 7:38; Eze.47:9; Rev.22:17).


Friday, October 25, 2013

A Hidden Famine. A Hidden Feast.

According to 1Cor.10:17 all those who belong to Christ's body provide and partake of, spiritual nourishment (1Pet.4:10).
What food should be provided by the steward? Jesus said, "I am the bread from heaven". Christ's teachings provide the food, and the Holy Spirit granted his body aids them to prepare it, and to share what they have received through the body, from the Head, Christ.

Remember the illustration of the wheat? Wheat seeds makes bread, which is Christ's symbol for spiritual food (Luke8:11).
Those who take his words into their heart (Luke8:15) "and produce a crop", take what they have been given, and multiply that seed (Matt.25:20) by becoming mature "wheat" themselves. 
  An immature stalk of wheat cannot bear fruit/seed. It must become mature (Eph.4:13), and thereby become identified as "sons of the kingdom" (Matt.13:37,38). 
Before they can scatter the same seeds of truth which were planted in their own hearts, they must grow to maturity. This is why Christ's illustration has two parts....
the first, when the seed is the word of God in their heart (Luke8:11)...
and second, when the word of God has grown in that heart to full maturity...
  able to provide it's own seed from that maturity....seed of the same kind it was given. Those sowing this seed, are "sons of the kingdom" (Matt.13:37,38).
  That "seed" provides bread for the hearer, and is to be freely "cast upon the waters" (2Cor.9:10; Ec.11:1,6; Gal.6:9; Luke6:38).

What then of the prophesied famine?
This "famine" is not for literal food, but for the spiritual bread of our present discussion (Amos8:11; 2Chron.15:3; Ps.74:9; Lev.26:26; Eze.4:10,11,12,13; Rev.6:5,6)
Dan.12:4 tells us that in the time of the end, "many" will rove about seeking spiritual food, due to the famine 
(Rev.6:5,6,8; 18:8; 13:17; Isa.55:2).
But most will not find the bread of life (Dan.12:4; Amos8:12,11; 2Tim.3:7; Rev.6:5,6; Matt.7:13,14), despite the work of the faithful to provide the very "food" they themselves are receiving (Isa.65:13; Luke12:37,42,43,44) from Christ (John15:15,4,5,8).

Who is identified as the faithful who offer the bread sourced in heaven?
"They" who provide food, sustain the "woman" (Rev.12:6; 11:3) during the end-time famine, 

and are symbolized by "two witnesses" (Moses and Elijah -Matt.17:3; John8:17).
["Women" = covenants -Gal.4:24,26 (Rev.12:1,2,5,6; 2:26,27)]
The source of their light/oil/bread, is no mystery (Rev.11:3,4; Zech.4:6,11,12,14; John15:5).
When these offer what they are given, they will provide "the proper food at the proper time",
during a famine which forbids such provisions (Rev.6:6; 13:17; 6:9).

The "seven" years of famine are symbolic, according the symbolic meaning of "seven".
Those who are spiritually deaf, will not recognize their starvation (Isa.55:2; Matt.13:15,14; Ps.119:70; Zech.7:11; Eze.3:7; Luke19:42; John8:43,47; Rev.3:22; Luke8:10,18), nor the source of it (2Thess.2:9,10,11,12; Rev.13:8,4,14; 12:16).
due to the deceptive spell they are under (Isa.29:8; 2Thess.2:10; Rev.13:14; Eze.13:17,18,19; Isa.28:7,13,14,15,20,18,19; Dan.5:5,6,22,23,24,25,26 (Luke16:3); Dan.5:27 (Isa.28:20); Dan.5:23 A; (Rev.17:14); Rev.11:7,8,9,10; Matt.25:44,45).
Those without insight (granted by the Father -Matt.13:11; 16:17) will not recognize these 7 symbolic years of famine;
nor the spiritual feast being offered by God.
(Matt.13:12; 22:1,2,5,8,9; Rev.5:1,9,7; 1:1; John15:15; Rev.21:6; 22:17)

(Search results for "marriage feast")

All the anointed branches that are attached to the true vine, are obligated to bear fruit (John15:5,8; Matt.7:19).
They are all "stewards" of what they have been given (2Thess.2:15; Titus 1:1,9; 2:1; 2Tim.1:13; Matt.28:20; 1Cor.4:1,2).
These provide food in all seasons, not just during famine (2Tim.4:2; Col.1:25,26; Rom.16:25; Eph.3:3,4,9; 4:3).
But in the time of the end, there will be spiritual famine.
Who will prove to be faithfully providing Truth, by "keeping their lamp burning", despite persecution? (Luke12:35,36,37; Rev.5:7; John15:15)

Just as prophesied....the wayward nation of Chosen Ones will have a remnant that will repent of their idolatry to the "Image" of the Wild Beast (Rev.2:5,16,22,23; 3:1,2,3,4,15,16,17,18,19,20; Isa.10:22; Joel2:32; Zech.13:9; Rev.12:4; 7:9-10,13-14). Those prophets among them will be "caused to prophesy" (Rev.11:3), providing the proper food at the proper time during this famine (Dan.12:1,3-4,7-12; 9:25-26; Phil.2:15), and thereby, strengthen their mother covenant (who was in danger of being swept away by Satanic lies (Rev.12:15; 16:13; 2Pet.3:17; Luke17:26,27; Dan.9:26; Eph.4:14).



Thursday, October 24, 2013

"Who Really Is?"

All inside the WT seem to take for granted that the GB is the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matt.24:45. Of course, this is what is taught as fact.
But in order to devote our primary attention to Christ and not to men,
we should go back to his words regarding this DS (discreet slave).
Did he tell us anything that would lead us to believe that the GB is the DS?

The first thing about Christ's words I would like to highlight, is that, he puts the identity of the DS in question form.
"Who really is like a wise servant who can be trusted? His master will put him in charge of his other servants. He gives them their food at the right time." (Matt.24:45)

Why did Jesus ASK US who this faithful servant is?
Could it be because we should be asking ourselves this question, rather than assuming who it is?
Why would we need to ask, and not assume?
40 verses previous, Jesus tells us ...
"Many men will come in my name. They will say, "I am the Christ" (discreet anointed slaves) ("Christ" means "anointed"). They will fool many people. Jesus answered them, `Take care. Do not let anyone fool you." (Matt.24:5,4)
Clearly, Jesus is saying that there will be imposter "faithful and discreet slaves".
These counterfeits are mentioned again, 20 verse before...
"People will come and say they are the Christ. People will come and say they are prophets. But they are not true. They will show big signs and do wonderful things to fool people. They will fool God's chosen people if they can. Watch! I have told you these things before they happen." (Matt.24:24,25)

So we see that there was a good reason for Jesus to put the identity of the DS in question form.
If we DON'T ask ourselves "who REALLY is the DS", there is a good chance that we may be deceived by the imposters,
since Jesus said that their disguise would be so convincing, that "even the 'chosen' can be mislead" (Matt.24:24).
Note too, that Jesus confided that "Manywould  be mislead (Matt.24:5).
In fact, the "false prophet" of Rev.13:11 is said to "mislead the entire 'earth'" (Rev.13:8,3,12; 12:9) and by means of the Beast it uses, IS able to "conquer" "the Holy Ones" (Chosen) (Rev.13:7; Dan.8:12) (2Thess.2:4; Dan.8:11) (Dan.8:10; Rev.12:4) "throwing/casting truth to the ground".
So, this "conquering of the Holy Ones/Chosen" is not physical, but spiritual, by means of the debasing of truth, and a believing of the lies of the "false Christs/prophets".

Do you see how all this is connected to our assumption of who the DS is? Do you see why Jesus warned us, and puts the identity of his true messengers in question form?
We are therefore warned (Matt.24:25), against assuming who the DS is.

Jesus followed this question by showing us that indeed, there lie two choices before the Stewards...
But only one of those choices was to be faithful and discreet.
Note Matt.24:48-51...
"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Yes, Jesus speaks of another option before this option all JW's seem to discount when it comes to the GB.
But if we respect the loving warning Jesus gave, we will hold any prophet up to this light, and determine with caution,
"who really" is faithful and discreet, and is not demonstrating the traits of the wicked slave. 
(1John4:1; 1Tim.4:1; Rev.16:13,14)

If we use this test given us from Christ, and apply it to the do they stack up?

Do they have reason to subscribe to the words, "My Master delays."?
(Are they not the source of the doctrine of 1914, which has proven pre-mature? -see 2Thess.2:1,2,3)
(All anointed have "fallen asleep" due to this false doctrine -Matt.25:5)

Do they "beat their fellow servants" by persecuting other anointed who are serving Christ by bearing witness to truth?
(Trust me, and thousands of other former witnesses who have been disfellowshiped for apostacy. Why have many suffered the loss of their children, marriage mates, grandchildren, homes, and careers? Not because they have violated scripture, but because they are being shunned, ostracized, and unlovingly persecuted for being in subjection to truth. These refuse to be in subjection to false doctrine, those who promote it, and those who enforce it. -John16:2)

Do they "eat and drink with confirmed *drunkards"?
Since this term* is symbolic (Isa.28:7-8; 19:14; Micah 2:11; Rev.17:4; 18:3-4), a brief answer is not possible. But if you recall the alliance between the Harlot and the Beast...and the False Prophet and the Beast;
therein lies your answer.)

How would we know the genuine faithful and discreet slaves of Christ? What are their traits?
We are only told at Matt.24 that they are offering "the proper food at the proper time".
The proper food, is the Truth. The proper time, is when that truth is vital to know and obey.

But there are many scriptures which describe the "fine fruit" of the DS, which distinguishes their identity from the impostors (Matt.7:20).
We are also told, that in the time of the end, all the faithful, die for truth (Rev.6:9,10,11; 12:10,11).
How do the "discreet slaves" fulfill this? Are the GB fulfilling it?
Revelation is symbolic, so we need to see who are dying a symbolic death, how this occurs, and why.
Are these "deaths" in reality, the "beating" by the "wicked slave"/false Christs?
Those guilty of the "deaths" of the faithful, are exposed as being the Wild Beast, the Harlot, and the false prophet (Rev.11:7; 17:6; 13:15).  We are told that they "kill" the faithful because they preach the Truth of Christ, refuse to idolize the Image of the Beast, or accept the brand-mark (666) of the Beast's deceptions (Rev.13:14,15,16,17,18; 20:4; 6:9).

I know the comment you made about this subject was brief, but the implications of it are profoundly relevant to all searching for the genuine discreet slaves of Christ in the time of the end, as well as searching for the "proper food at the proper time".
More helpful info. can be found, at:


Sunday, October 20, 2013

"Two witnesses" ...Literally?

Some feel that as long as there are literally "two" Chosen ones, teaching the same thing, that this makes that doctrine true.
This is based upon the meaning of John8:17 and a literal interpretation of Rev.11:3.
Is this accurate?

How do the Chosen know that they are anointed?
Do two people tell them?
Not according to what Rom.8:16 reads:
"The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God".

Note that in this case, the Holy Spirit can be a witness along with one human spirit.
See another important instance of this, as the Pharisees spoke to Christ...
"The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."
True...Jesus did not have another perfect twin brother to preach with him.
How did Jesus reply to this?
"Jesus answered, 'Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.
But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me is with me. I am He who testifies about Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies about Me.'" John8:14,16,18
According to Jesus, Holy Spirit is a valid witness.

1John5:9 reads:
"We accept human testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son." 
(see also John5:32,37)

Is there evidence of this backing by God's spirit today? 
Jesus said:
"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." John10:37,38

Jesus said he could be identified as true (symbolized by "two witnesses") if the Father's backing of Holy Spirit was evident, as displayed through the Father's works (1John2:17; Matt.12:50; 7:21) that His Spirit enabled Jesus to perform. 
This also made evident, that "the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."

What about anointed being backed in this way, and therefore, as also being proven as true. Was this possible?
Note John17:21,22,23...
"...that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.  I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—  I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. (Matt.3:17)
Christ was pointing to the faithful anointed being unified with God and Christ. As Christ was united with the Father, and this resulted in works which bore testimony to his divine credentials, so too, "the world will know"that the faithful are also loved by the Father, and have His backing of spirit, by their works in harmony with the will of God. Those who remain in union with God and Christ, are the men of Truth (John15:4,5; 1John2:28).

The anointed today do not perform literal miracles as Jesus did;
so what works can the world view which demonstrate backing by God's spirit,
thereby fulfilling the "two witness" requirement as it was fulfilled with Christ?
Jesus said that the works of his followers, compared to "fruit that would last" (John15:8,16).
That fruit sourced in Christ (Matt.24:35; John15:4,5,8,16; Rom.11:17; Matt.10:27; Luke12:12; 21:15; John14:26)
comes from the lips of chosen priests (Heb.13:15; Prov.12:14; Mal.2:7) but is sourced in a heart united with God's spirit (John14:17; Rom.8:9; 1John3:24) (Matt.12:33,34,35,36,37; 7:20)....not in worldly research, religious doctrine, and intellect, upon which those lacking spirit must depend.
All the faithful slaves of Christ's body, would be guided by God's spirit of truth alone (John16:13; 1John2:20,27; 1Cor.2:13) manifested in it's various forms (1Cor.12:7,4; 1Pet.4:10; Eph.4:11,16).

If we return to John7 we can see that there is a way that a true prophet can be identified in just the same way Christ was...

"Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. 18 Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him." (John7:17,18,16) 
(also John8:28,31,47)
How would we identify such a faithful witness for truth?
Would it be by him having a literal companion mimicking each of his words,
or perhaps by reflecting the physical orientation of the Pharisees, requiring two authors for each article written?
Liars can also be in agreement, and work together (Rev.16:13)
Foolish is the man who relies on such empty physical rules.

According to Jesus,
"A man of truth" would "seek the glory of the one who sent him",
by deriving every teaching from scripture, rather than their own research into worldly knowledge, current events, and their own resulting deductions (1Cor.2:13,14). In this way, the source of a true prophet is the scriptures of God, whose words the prophet seeks to glorify as supreme. 
God's spirit backs such a one to bear loyal fruit, providing the second witness, as it did with Christ.

Those who do not depend upon spirit (Matt.25:3,10), but puff up themselves by means of confidence in their own efforts and ability, seek their own glory. 

All the true prophets of old, did not have a rule to go about their commission in pairs.
Did this make them liars?
No, because like Christ, the spirit of the Father in Heaven was backing them as they carried out His Will. In response, these prophets declared the Word of God faithfully, and as a result, that Truth has, and will, endure (John15:16; 2Pet.1:19; Eph.2:20; 1Cor.3:10,11,12,13,14; 2Tim.2:19; Heb.11:10).

We know from the book of Revelation, that horns represent kings (Rev.17:12).
The false prophet who incites "all the earth" to commit idolatry, by worshiping the Beast and it's Image (Rev.13:8,12,14,15; Exo.20:4; Rev.2:14,20) has itself "two horns"/kings, "like a lamb" (Rev.13:11). 
Does this counterfeit sign of "two witnesses"/kings (Rev.11:3), mean that this composite prophet is true?
Not at all, since it "spoke like a dragon" (Matt.7:15; Rev.13:11; John8:44; Rev.19:20; 20:10).

During this great final battle between truth and lies (2Cor.10:3,4,5; Luke10:19; 21:15; Eph.6:12; Rev.16:13,14,15,16; 12:7; 17:14; 19:11,14,8) out prophets who like Christ, are in union with God's spirit,
made evident by their works...the fruit they produce by completely relying upon God's spirit and His Word of Truth (John4:23,24) so that they might glorify the same.


Who are "Orphans and Widows"?

The requirements of True worship and the resulting approval of God is declared in God's own Word, as "looking after orphans and widows" as they undergo "distress"/"trouble" (James1:27; John16:33). 
(BOTH WORDS are translated from the same Greek word, "tribulation")
Yet Jesus made a different declaration as the basis of judgment, at Matt.25:40 ....or did he?
Who does THE BIBLE identify as "orphans and widows"? How does God Himself use this symbol?
John14:18,17; Isa.54:4,1,5,6,11,17; Lam.1:1; 5:3,5; Jer.15:8; 18:21; 49:11; 51:5; Isa.47:8; Rev.18:7; Eze.22:23,24,7.
The Bible uses "widows and orphans" as symbolism, and that symbolism is in perfect harmony with Matt.25:40...
which verse cannot be nullified as the requirement for life (Matt.25:46).
The anointed sons of God (Christ's "least brothers") who have been cast off from their "Land" and inheritance (Isa.66:5; John16:2; Rev.13:7; 11:3,7; 6:9,10,11; 11:2,7,8,9,10; Heb.13:13; 2Thess.2:4; Luke12:39; Joel.2:9; John10:1,10; Jer.48:27; Rev.3:11; 9:7,11)
and subjected as captive slaves to a new Master (Rev.13:10,7,17; Luke21:24; 4:18; Col.2:8; Rev.12:15; 16:13; Rev.9:14; 13:10)
previous to their restoration (Jer.30:3; Isa.14:2; Hosea6:11; Zeph.3:20; Rev.11:11),
...are declared by God and Christ themselves,
as spiritual "widows" and "orphans".
(Matt.25:35,36,37,38,39,40; 1Cor.4:11,12,13; Heb.11:8,9,10; Rom.8:17; John14:18; Lam.1:1; James1:27; Matt.25:40)
Those released from captivity, yet still destitute, have a choice. To put their trust in God while enduring with patience (1Tim.5:5; Rev.13:10), or to indulge in the temptation to serve Satan's lies (1Tim.5:6; James5:5; Rev.3:1)...imitating the harlot, by whom they had been made "widows" (Rev.17:1,6; 18:24; Matt.23:35,37; Luke13:33; Acts5:30; 3:15; Mark 10:33; 8:31) 
(1Pet.1:19; Rev.21:9).


Superiority? No..., not for any one of us.

There are Chosen Ones who might nullify Eph.2:20; 1Cor.14:32; 12:18; Amos 3:7 and Num.12:6.
Their motive is unfounded.

To these I offer the following scriptural thoughts...

To know Christ's voice is to recognize the sound of truth and the Word of God (John10:27). The Pharisees were deaf to this (John8:27,43,47; Eze.3:4,5,6,7; Matt.13:14; Acts 28:26,27) due to having the same desires as Satan (John8:40,41,44; 1John3:12).

The present Temple of God's spirit is also in Covenant with God (just like the Pharisees of the past), and it's body of Christ, is arranged according to the Will of God (1Cor.12:11,18,19). The Pharisees refused to recognize the cornerstone of that Temple City (Eph.2:20; Luke20:17,18,19).
ALL members of the anointed body, must also discern the body's structure (1Cor.11:28,29,31; 1Cor.12:18,28), including it's foundation
(Eph.2:20; 1Cor.3:10; 15:9,10; Acts4:20; Rev.21:14; Luke11:49; Rev.18:20),
lest they sin against God's own arrangement, due to pride...the same leaven as the Pharisees (Mark8:15,21; 9:33,34; Luke9:46; 1Cor.8:2; Gal.6:3; 2Cor.11:12).

Those who truly abide in Love, rejoice in the mercies and kindness expressed to their brothers (1John3:14; 1Cor.12:26). These realize that any honor shown according to the justice of God, is shown to those who previously lacked honor especially, in order that there should be no superiority, imbalance, or division within the body (1Cor.12:24,25,26; Matt.20:26,27; 1Cor.4:7; Rom.12:3,6; 1Pet.4:10; Matt.20:16; 23:12).
If God chooses the most despised to be shown an equalizing amount of mercy, of what concern is that to anyone? (1Cor.1:26,27,28,29,30; Matt.20:13,14,15) All of us are undeserving worthless slaves, who perform our assigned place out of obligation, not out of superiority (Rom.4:4; Luke17:10; 1Cor.4:7; Luke12:48).
If God does not give all the honor to those who already have honor,
and choose to neglect and further debase those who have been totally despised and cast off;
...why would those who also depend on God's undeserved mercy, raise objection to others being lifted up from such despair, to now be compensated and made equal to them,
...unless their eye were evil?

There is an equalizing according to God's justice. None should be greedy for more at the loss to his brother, or even lower, a sister.
Those who truly grasp Christ's voice of truth being proclaimed throughout the above scriptural words of God, recognize, accept, and obey the justice and mercy of God found within those words (John10:27).
This is the voice of the Good Shepherd, who cares for ALL his 144000 sheep....not just the ones who envy what they do not understand.
(Gal.6:3,4; Matt.25:20,22; 1Cor.3:8; Luke12:48 B).
The parts of Christ's Body who are accustomed to being treated with greater honor, according to their self-estimation, are the very ones who must learn humility. The parts of Christ's Body who are accustomed to being dominated, and as being discarded as nothing, are the very ones who must learn to accept their responsibility as priest, according to their God-given assignment, despite the objections and ridicule which surround them, which they were previously accustomed to yield to. (2Cor.11:20; 1Pet.4:10; Rom.12:6,7,8; 1Cor.14:32,33,29; Rev.22:6; Amos3:7; Eph.2:20,21; Heb.11:10)
Those who object to God's justice and demand more for themselves,
really do not understand what they are asking for (Matt.17:1,3; Mark10:37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45),
as such positions are not what they suppose them to be.


Friday, October 18, 2013

Final Prophet(s)

The following addition was added to
as follows...

"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John". (Rev.1:1)
This one whom Jesus "sends", is the same angel ("messenger") of Zech.4:9 and Mal.3:1 (Isa.40:1,2,3; Rev.12:6,14; Isa.40:4,5,9,10; Matt.25:6), who appears when God's Temple (anointed priesthood) is finally completed by the "capstone". That prophet messenger(s) ["angel(s)"] is sent to prophesy in that time of the end, and will fulfill the roles of "Moses and Elijah" (Rev.11:3,4; Zech.4:14,9). The appearance of this "capstone" will initiate the "small beginnings" of the eternal Kingdom. This beginning sprouts from a condition of devastation (Zech.4:10,6; Hag.2:3; Rev.11:2; Dan.12:7; Rev.13:7; Matt.24:15; Luke21:24; Matt.7:6; Dan.8:12; 1Cor.3:16,17; 2Thess.2:8; 1:7; Rev.1:1; Isa.40:5,2,3)"


Monday, October 14, 2013

God's Messengers


Dear Pearl,
Does the angels give orders , instruct and pass information (re the interpretation of prophecies found in the Bible) on to the Faithful and discreet slave ?


Dear Johan,
There is so much deception rife in the end times in which we live, that nothing we thought we knew can be taken for granted as truth (1Cor. 3:18;  2Cor. 11:3; Col.2:8;  1Tim. 4:1; Matt.24:24,25;  2Thess. 2:4,9; Rev.12:9; 13:11; 20:12).
I say this, because the first part of your question asks about angels.

You may have been taught as I was...
that all angels are spirits that were born in heaven as spirits.
The Greek word for angel means messenger, and that word is also applied to those whom God has chosen to bear His messages. These can include those God has chosen to be His Temple priests.

Mal.2:7 reads
"For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the LORD Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth."

1Pet. 2:9 reads:
"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."
Rev.5:10 reads
"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
    and they will reign on the earth.”

Hopefully you can see that according to the Bible, chosen priests anointed by God are given information to share with others (Matt.5:14,16). If one of these priests was chosen to be a prophet (1Cor. 7:7; 12:4,5,28; Eph.4:11) then that priest would also have a message for fellow priests, just as the apostles had information for their fellow anointed ones (Eph.2:20; 4:12; Rom.12:6;  1Pet. 4:10,11;  1Cor. 4:1; 3:10; Rev.1:20;  1Cor. 14:33).

The reason why it is so important to understand who the angelic messengers of God include;
is because this is in harmony with the rest of the Bible's facts, such as:

1Tim. 2:5
"For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus".
This does not point to another spirit being between Christ and man.
Between God and man, is only Christ.

As such, it is Christ who gives information directly to men of his choosing, as a high priest directly cares for his under-priests. 
It may also help to check other scriptures about how the anointed prophets receive information...

Jesus said;
"What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs." (Matt.10:27)

"Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud;...he said, “Listen to my words:
When there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions, I speak to them in dreams." Num.12:5,6

When I was taken in vision, Christ himself spoke with me. There was no intermediary spirit person.
Rev.1:1 and Rev.22:8,9 may come to your mind. Let's look at them:

"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John". (Rev.1:1)
This one whom Jesus "sends", is the same "angel" (Greek = "messenger" -Gal.4:14) of Zech.4:9 and Mal.3:1 (Isa.40:1,2,3; Rev.12:6,14; Isa.40:4,5,9,10; Matt.25:6), who appears when God's Temple (anointed priesthood) is finally completed by the "capstone". That prophet messenger(s) ["angel(s)"] is sent to prophesy in that time of the end, and will fulfill the roles of "Moses and Elijah" (Rev.11:3,4; Zech.4:14,9). The appearance of this "capstone" will initiate the "small beginnings" of the eternal Kingdom. This beginning sprouts from a condition of devastation (Zech.4:10,6; Hag.2:3; Rev.11:2; Dan.12:7; Rev.13:7; Matt.24:15; Luke 21:24; Matt.7:6; Dan.8:12;  1Cor. 3:16,17;  2Thess. 2:8; 1:7; Rev.1:1; Isa.40:5,2,3)"

"I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!” (Rev.22:8,9)

The Holy Spirit is what teaches the anointed slaves (1John 2:20,27; John 14:26).
Those given a message by means of that spirit, speak on it's knowledge and power directly, without another intermediary persona (John 16:12,13,14; Matt.10:20; Luke 12:12).

So then, who is this angel that is "showing" John Revelation's visions?

This messenger of prophecy, is one of the angels mentioned at Rev.1:20...
"The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches."

Can you see from this that the "seven" congregations of Christ (made of anointed priests), each have a "messenger"/"angel" that is a "star" of light to their congregation?

Who are these angel stars?
The Bible tells us...
"Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever."
"Those", are speaking of humans. 
These eternal "stars" are "light bearers" who have been given specific wisdom from God to prophesy to their congregations. These are the same identity as the "two witnesses" of Rev.11:3,4.
This symbolic "Moses and Elijah" role as prophet, is not the same as all God's nation of priests (1Pet. 2:10,9).
Not all priests are prophets (1Cor. 12:29).

To be certain that these stars are humans among other humans...
See Phil.2:15...
"so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.” Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky as you hold firmly to the word of life."

These who "hold firmly to the word of life" are doing the same thing as John's Revelation angel.
Remember what that "angel" said?...
"I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll.
When John received the visions of Revelation, he was transferred into the future "Lord's Day" (Rev.1:10). This means that he will learn the meaning of Revelation after his resurrection, from the prophets who are given that scroll's interpretation in "the time of the end" (Dan.12:4; Rev.22:10; 20:12; Amos 3:7; Rev.22:6) to give to the remnant in peril, during the Great Tribulation.
That event is what John described,
as he himself, as well as the angelic prophet, were within "the Lord's Day" and "the time of the end".

Spirit angels in heaven have no need to hold firmly to the word of life (or to "keep the words" of the scroll of Revelation) as delivered to the anointed by Christ through his prophets (Rev.11:3); 
nor do they need to "keep the words" of the book of Revelation, since they are not the ones portrayed in Revelation's dilemma and solution (Rev.22:19; 1:11,3). The "seven Congregations" are. 
Remember that the purpose of Revelation, is for Jesus to "show his anointed slaves/servants" what will happen (Rev.1:1)...not to show invisible spirit creatures, so that they will be warned, and obey.

Christ's slaves are the ones who need the "angels"/"stars" to enlighten their congregations, as to the spiritual perils Revelation unveils. These star-like messengers must pass on the light which "the spirit of the prophets" has given them (Rev.10:7; 11:3;  1Cor. 14:32), to those anointed who are not prophets, 
are in peril, 
and are still in the darkness of Satan's final great deception 
(1Tim. 4:1; Rev.13:7; 16:13,14,15;  2Thess. 2:9,4; Matt.24:15,4,5,24,25).

So when you ask if "angels" receive "orders" to instruct and pass information to God's anointed slaves...
that depends upon your definition of "angel".

If you believe what many have been deceived into believing...
that the conquering of Satan is done by angels who were never human (Rev.12:7), and that these take the lead in prophesying to the body of Christ (including the apostle John), then my reply would be "No.".
(Rev.12:7;  2Cor. 10:3,4,5; 6:7; Rev.11:5; Jer.5:14; 1:10; Rev.16:16; 19:11,14,8; 17:14; Gen.3:15; Rev.12:7)

If you believe that the angels in Revelation are anointed prophets here on earth, sent to show God's anointed slaves of Christ's body "what will soon take place";
then "Yes."...those chosen as prophets pass information (including the interpretation of prophecy) on to the rest of Christ's slaves...those who have not been chosen to be prophets (1Cor. 12:29,21,14,7,8,9,10,11,4,5; Rev.1:1,20; 11:3; 10:7).

Thank you for your good question,

----FOLLOW-UP #1:

QUESTION: So after all I have read , you are in fact saying God is passing information /orders and instructs only the anointed who are to be kings and priest via his angels?

No Johan,
That is not what my reply explained.
My reply in summary, is that God is passing information to Jesus Christ, as He always has.
Jesus Christ in turn, by means of Holy Spirit, shares that information with his anointed priests, depending upon what their individual assignment is. (Rev.5:2,4,5,7; John 16:15; Rev.1:1).
As I explained previous, non-human angels have nothing to do with this.
Christ feeds his own anointed slaves/priests (John 6:51; Luke 12:35,36,37; 17:8; Rev.3:20).
and his slaves/priests, feed his sheep (John 21:17).
The anointed prophets are also called angels (Rev.1:20; Heb.1:7; 12:22,23)
and the prophecies which speak of angel messengers, are speaking of sealed anointed,
who have become spirit (Rom.8:9,11; John 3:6; 5:24;  1Pet. 1:22,23;  1John 3:14; Matt.22:30; John 8:51; Rev.20:6).
If you don't consider the scriptures fully,
you will not find the answer clearly.

Thank you for following up, and please let me know if these additional scriptures help to clarify.
All the best,

----FOLLOW-UP #2:

Thanks for taking your time to  answer and are you aware that the WTS claims that God who is the sole interpreter of his sacred word and prophecies merely uses the F&DS to publish those interpretations using the angels to pass on the info after Jesus as His mouthpiece revealed it to the angles to pass on to the FDS/Remnant?


God IS the sole interpreter of His own Word (Gen.40:8; Dan.2:27,28; Job 33:15,16; Ps.25:14; Amos 3:7;  1Cor. 12:10,11).
If you wrote a letter; Who would be the best person to explain what you meant by it...
...someone who didn't know you? ...or you, yourself?
God's Spirit gives interpretation (1Cor. 2:10).
That spirit is sent out to the entirety of God's land/"earth"/"seven congregations", through the "seven stars"/"lamps"/"angels" (Rev.5:6; 3:1; 4:5; 1:20).
As you can see partially from the above scriptures (and the ones to follow); God does speak through His faithful slaves 
*(Matt.10:20; Luke 12:12;  1Thess. 2:13) (2Sam. 23:2; Mark 12:36; Luke 21:15; Acts 2:4;  2Pet. 1:12,21).

As far as the WTS claiming that between Jesus Christ and his faithful slaves, there are unseen "angels" who relay his message...
Hopefully as a result of reading all the scriptures I have provided thus far,
you can deduce that such is clearly not the case. 

The truth is that God does speak through His chosen priests, (Mal.2:7; Matt.5:14;  1Pet. 2:9), (see scriptures *above).
What we each must discern is... which of these priestly prophets ARE the true and faithful ones,
and which are the false and unfaithful (Matt.24:45,24; 7:15,16,17,18,19,20; John 7:17,18; 8:47)

In their case (WTS)...this receiving information from unseen spirit beings other than Christ, may be so...
because scripture reveals that the UNfaithful slaves of Christ,
ARE  being spiritually fed by unseen messengers other than Christ (2Cor. 11:3;  1Tim. 4:1; Rev.16:13,14).

Now I must tell you, that you are dragging behind in the current doctrines of the WTS.
When you say that the WTS teaches that angels "pass on to the FDS/ Remnant" interpretations of scripture;
you reveal that you have not learned about their recent change in doctrine.
  The WTS no longer teaches that the "remnant" are the FDS.
They teach that the governing body of today are alone and exclusively... the FDS.
Of greatest import here, is that no one should claim the stature of FDS (Luke 12:42; 17:10) because only Jesus Christ has the right to bestow that title (Rom.14:4; 2Pet.3:17NIV ; 1Cor.10:12; Mal.3:2; Rev.2:5), when he returns and calls his servants into account (Matt.25:19-21; 2Cor.5:10; John12:48).

So in answer to your current question...
Yes, I am aware of what the current doctrine of the WTS is, regarding the avenue of knowledge from God to men...and now you are also. 
Jesus declared that such vacillating doctrines of men make the Word of God "invalid", and convert any worship directed toward God, to be "in vain". (Mark 7:13,7) 
Although I am aware of the various and confusing doctrines from a variety of false prophets; I do not see the spiritual value of admitting to such knowledge, to myself or anyone else.

For this reason, I prefer to spend my time working to shed light on God's Words...and not man's (Rom.3:4; Psalm 36:9). Please use my services accordingly.

Saturday, October 12, 2013

Who is "Israel"?

Do you yourself believe that the Jewish people today, will come to know Jesus and see him as the true Messiah that was sent by Jah?


The answer to this question first requires that your definition of "Jew" be defined.
If as I suspect, you define "Jew" based upon physical traits, then my answer must be a conditional "No".
If you define "Jew" upon spiritual traits, then my answer must be a conditional "Yes".
Why are each of these answers "conditional"?
Because those spiritual Jews who "see" can become "blind"; and those physical Jews who are "blind" can be made to "see" (Rom.11:22,23,24).
It is as Jesus said...those who are God's chosen people must "endure to the end" to be finally saved (Matt.24:13; Eze.33:18,19).

Now because of a prevailing and popular attitude about the salvation of ethnic "Jews", I will assume which of these options is the intent of your question. If I assume wrongly, please notify me, and I will reconsider your clarified question.
I will assume that you are asking...
"Will those considered Jews by physical descent alive today (or in the time of the end) be converted in Faith to true Christianity, and thereby fulfill scriptural prophecy regarding 'Israel'?"

I hope this rephrased question is the right choice from among the above options. This is the most popular interpretation of your words; So I will reply accordingly.

God's people today, are no longer Jews by physical descent.
Please examine the scriptural basis for this conclusion....

"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you (the Jews) and given to a people who will produce its fruit." Matt.21:43 (Matt.7:19; John15:16,5; Prov.12:14; Heb.13:15; 1Pet.2:5,9,10)

"You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” For if God did not spare the natural branches (natural physical Jews), he will not spare you either. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot (Gentiles--not Jews), have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap (holy spirit) from the olive root (John15:4,5; 1Cor.12:13), do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you." (Rom.11:19,21,17,18)

"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you did not want it. "Behold, your house is being left to you abandoned!" (Matt.23:37,38) (Josh.24:20; 2Chron.15:2; 7:19,20,21,22; 1Chron.28:9; 1Kings9:7; Matt.24:2)

God's past promises made to physical Jews will not fail, despite their rejection of the Messiah. How? Paul tells us how:
"Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to Israel? No, for not all who are born into the nation of Israel are truly members of God's people!" (Rom.9:6)
If God only accepts Jews of faith in Christ, he has fulfilled his promise toward Jews through that remnant of faithful (Rom.9:27).
And God can add to that nation, by converting Gentiles who imitate Abraham's faith, into "Jews" to bless. Then His promises of blessings are still fulfilled to his New hybrid nation who are all SPIRITUAL Jews, yet physically both Jew and Gentile (Eph.2:15).
Just as we can prove ourselves sons of God by imitation (Eph.5:1)
or sons of Satan by imitation (John8:44)
we can become sons of Abraham (Jews) by imitation of his faith (Heb.6:12).
"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way, all Israel will be saved." (Rom.11:25,26)
Can you discern from these two scriptures, that the means by which God's promises will be fulfilled toward Israel, is by means of the compensation by Gentiles to fulfill the deficient full number by physical Jews? By God's acceptance of Gentiles into His new faithful Nation (thereby cleansing Gentiles into spiritual Jews/"Israel"); the promises He made will be fulfilled...
"For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith (not through physical descent);  for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal.3:18,26,27,28,29)

This is why Paul did not assume his salvation was based upon his Jewish flesh. (Phil.3:3; Gal.6:15)
He based it upon a "circumcision of the heart" which cleansing by spirit occurs to those who become spiritual Jews (Rom.2:28,29) and heirs of Abraham (Gal.3:29).

The "Old Covenant" ("Law") was "near to passing away" and being replaced through Christ (Heb.8:7,8,6,13; Matt.5:17). He is the "seed" who fulfilled and received the promises to Abraham (Gal.3:16). But he was to share his authority and inheritance with his brothers (Gal.3:22; Phil.3:10,11; Rom.6:5; 8:17; 2Pet.1:4). As physical descendants of Abraham, the Jews were first to be offered the inheritance of the kingdom (Matt.15:24; 10:6; Acts13:46; Rom.15:8; Matt.15:24), but this preference would not last (Luke8:21; Heb.8:13; Acts13:44,45,46; 18:6; Luke24:47; Rom.11:19; John15:2; Matt.21:43). God could raise up sons of Abraham ("Jews") from even Gentiles (Luke3:8; Rom.2:28,29; Gal.3:14,28,29; Gal.4:28,26; Matt.21:43; Acts.10:34,35; 15:8,9,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19; Gen.17:3,4,5; Rev.5:9,10). These would stand by means of faith, not by means of their Jewish flesh (Rom.11:20; 2Cor.1:24; Heb.6:12,15; 10:36).

God has allowed the free-will choice of the physical Jews to reject what God has offered them (Matt.27:23,25; Acts18:6; Rom.11:25; 9:18; 11:7,12) until the full number of required anointed priests and kings is fulfilled by "Gentiles" (all nations).
Once the "remnant" of physical Jews of faith in Christ were gathered (Rom.9:27; 11:5); the rest of the anointed flock of Christ was completed by means of physical Gentiles. These two groups would become "one flock" over which there would be "one shepherd".
Two links to help with this understanding:

All the prophecies that mention the final salvation to the "Jews", are speaking of those who are God's nation by means of faith (Rom.9:26; 8:14). These become "Jews" in spirit. God's original promise to Abraham specified that he would be father, not just to Jews, but to "many nations" (Gen.17:5,7). Abraham is father to those who imitate his faith, though which they inherit the promises given to him and his seed (Gal.3:29).
Abraham's seed are the same spiritual "Jews" being spoken of in the symbolic book of Revelation (Rev.7:4; 21:14).
These are the same 144000 seen on "Mt. Zion" (Rev.14:1) and are equated in scripture with New Jerusalem (Isa.2:3; Heb.12:22; Rev.21:2).

So although many self-sourced "scholars" declare that we should expect a miraculous conversion of physical Jews, in order to fulfill God's promises to save "Israel";
the scriptures identify
 who "Israel" actually is,
 the means by which this entire new nation will be "saved",
 and clarifying precisely who will fulfill and receive those very promises.
 (Jer.31:33; Rom.2:14,15; Acts10:35; 15:9,14; Isa.43:21; 1Pet.2:9,10; Rev.5:9,10).

  I know that there are many more scriptures which establish these things, and I apologize for not including all of them. I hope the ones I was enabled to offer, are sufficient to give you a clear reply.
If not, please follow up with your additional question.
God bless you in your search for truth (Matt.13:11),

Dear "The Message",
I will quote (and underline) some of your previous post and cited scriptures, and within it, offer some scriptural considerations.

Gen 22:18 And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice."

Yes, God made this promise to Abraham and his seed. Who is that "seed" physically descended from Abraham?
Please consider Gal.3:16...
"The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ".
Christ fulfilled God's promise to Abraham's "seed".
He shares that throne, with those whom God chooses to be His new people (Eph.2:15) (Rev.3:21; 2Tim.2:12; Rev.2:26; Luke 19:17) (Eph.1:4,10; 3:8-9; Col.1:27) without any preference to physical lineage (see below).
Christ was eligible to fulfill that promise, because he was also born under the Law Covenant as a Jew (Gal.4:4-5). < He redeemed only those of Israel, who accepted him [Matt.15:24; John 1:11; 12:48-49; 8:13,24,26,33,37,39-44,47; 3:36; Matt.20:18-19; John 19:11; Matt.27:24-25; 21:43; 23:33-38; Rev.17:6 (Luke 13:33 B) Rev.19:2. 
(Matt.3:9; Rom.2:28-29; 9:6; Gal.6:15-16; 3:28-29; Eze.36:26-28; 1Pet.2:10,9,5).
Those who have God's Laws on their hearts, have a spiritual mark on them (Deut.11:18; Rev.14:1). Those who follow other Laws (John 8:44) have a different mark (Rev.13:16-18; 16:13,15). They are not serving God (Rev.7:3), nor do they inherit the promises (John 3:36; Rom.4:13; Heb.6:12).
Jesus also fulfilled the Law that he was born under (Rom.10:4), which then, passed away (Heb.8:7,13,9,10; 9:15; Rev.5:9-10)... replaced by the New Covenant. 
Remember... the covenant to Abraham made him father of many nations (Gen.17:4; Rom.4:13,16; 1:16; Gal.3:7-9), with no designation of partiality to any nation in particular (Acts 10:34-35).

This is the foremost covenant, the world will experience a blessing by means of Abraham's seed. This seed of Abraham comprises of both a physical seed, the Jews
and a spiritual seed, Christians.

Yes, both the physical seed of Abraham and the spiritual, are realities.
The reality of physical seed, does not guarantee that this seed are heirs.
True, the Jews were given preference, by being offered the inheritance first.
Those under Law who accepted Christ while that offer stood open (Matt.10:5-6; Heb.8:13; Rom.1:16; Acts 13:26-28,44-51; 15:7-9,14-17), received the reward which their faith incurred (Rom.11:1,5,7,11,14,19-23,35). 

No one can deny that the Jews are the physical seed of Abraham. 
No one can deny that Christians are the spiritual seed of Abraham by means of faith.

ALL are seed of Abraham by means of Faith 
(Rom.4:12-13,16; Gal.3:7,9,14,27-29; Col.3:11). The physical seed of Abraham who lack faith (and are not a part of the remnant - Rom.9:27), are no longer considered Abraham's seed (John 8:39,44), nor do they inherit the earth (Gen.13:14-15; Rom.4:13; Ps.37:29).

The conclusion: Both aspects of Abraham's seed exist and are legitimate!
The Jews are part of the new covenant. God explicitly says:
Jer 31:33,34 "For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days," is the utterance of YHVH. "I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people." 
"And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, 'KNOW YHVH!' for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them," is the utterance of YHVH. "For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more

But who is the "house of Israel"??? (Rom.9:6; 2:28-29; Phil.3:3; Heb.3:6) 
Who is considered "Israel" by God (Gal.6:16). God considers Israel his "flock" of sheep (Jer.31:10). The Jews who repented and accepted Christ (Acts 13:24-25), were the little flock (Luke 12:32). When Jesus brings in the Gentiles, they become ONE FLOCK without a divided distinction among them (John 10:16; Eph.2:15; Isa.56:8; Eze.37:24; John 11:52; Gal.3:26; Rom.8:27).
Who have God's Laws written on their hearts? (Eze.37:24; Deut.6:6,8; Rev.14:1)... who become God's people? (1Pet.2:10,9,5) Whose error is forgiven? (Heb.9:15; Rev.5:9-10)
Who really know God? (Isa.43:6-7,10,12,25,21; 1Pet.2:9; John 6:46; Matt.11:27)
    Just those who bear Abraham's physical genes?
Jer. 31:33,34 does not insist upon this.
All God's Sons must have God's Laws in their hearts.
(Luke 8:11,15)


Additional Pages for Study (coming soon)