QUESTION RECEIVED:
I have a question regarding the 144k. The 2000 odd years since Jesus's death has been a fairly long time and evidentially Jws are scrambling to justify increases to the number of partakers and the fact that (by their statistics) the number should have been made up long ago.
I dont believe we can trust their numbers to give us any indication of the amount of people who have actually been annointed. I think it's probably only a matter of time until the GB announces that the annointed number is symbolic and not a literal 144k as they've been teaching for decades.
I wanted to get some insight on this topic as its hard to grasp sometimes what has literal or symbolic application when it comes to revelations. Rev 7:5-8 says that the sealed make up a portion of the 12 tribes. I'm confused about the tribes' meaning and whether or not the numbers are exact and physical...? Either way, why is it necessary for the number (whether symbolic or not) to be made up? There have already been thousands of sealed, and as you have said, the harvest is nearly done. I'm just not sure why humanity has had to wait/endure/suffer in existence for so long when God already has so many Chosen from the first century. Once again, thank you for your insight
Also who are the 24 elders in white robes or what do they represent?
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MY REPLY:
I hope you are reading all the cited scriptures as you come to them. That is where holy spirit will open the understanding of these things up to you.
The book of Revelation is symbolic. If you look at the Greek for Rev.1:1, it contains a word that is rarely brought over into English when translated. I'll give you a link to the Greek so you can find it yourself.
Here is the word:
eshmanen
esEmanen
G4591
vi Aor Act 3 Sg
He-SIGNifiES
he-signifies-it
-- If you look at the capital letters (I did not change anything), you will see " SIGN ifiES ".
That's because the book is given to us in SIGNs. The seals are in place to prevent an open understanding of those signs. Understanding is exclusively for Christ's faithful servants
(Matt.13:34-35,11-13; Rev.22:16,6; 1:1).
The seals are finally opened, in the time of the end (Rev.20:12; 22:10; Dan.12:4,9-10).
The symbols (and what is about to happen as depicted in them) can then be understood in the time of the end,
through spirit (John16:12-13; Rev.22:6).
The seals are opened and deciphered, through the trumpets of the 7 angels (Rev.15:7; 8:2; 10:7; Isa.58:1NIV ).
144000 is a symbolic number. It is based upon the numeral 12, which represents truth because it is the sum of two witnesses (6+6=12). 144000 is the result of 12x12x1000. That's why there are 12 tribes, and 12,000 in each tribe. Those tribes are not headed by the sons of Jacob, but by the 12 apostles (Matt.19:28). The tribes are comprised of symbolic Jews (Rom.2:28-29; Gal.3:29; Rom.9:6).
The thousand,
(as we observe in the numeral 1,000 that symbolizes Christ's reign over the 144000)
...represents a receiving of a kingdom due to faithfulness.
To briefly explain this, we see the faithful anointed as having traversed the path of Christ to the end, as Paul said, to finish the race (Matt.16:24-26; John14:6; 2Tim.4:7-8).
Rev.17:14 displays that progression as "called, chosen, faithful".
First we are called/drawn by the Father to Christ (John6:44; 17:6; 1Cor.1:26).
Second (if that is successful) we are chosen
(1Cor.1:27-29; 1Pet.2:9; 1:2; Mark 13:20; Luke18:7; John15:19; Acts 9:15; 10:41; Rom.8:33; Eph.1:11; Col.3:12; 1Thess.1:4; James 2:5; Isa.43:10).
After being chosen, we face the fork in the road of being faithful or unfaithful to God's choosing of us
(1Cor.4:2; Heb.10:38; Matt.24:45; 25:21; Eph.1:1; 1Tim.2:7; Col.1:2; 1Pet.4:10; 3John1:3; Rev.2:10; 14:12; 17:14).
You can see "called" as 10. "Chosen" as 100. "Faithful" and as receiving your kingdom with Christ, as 1000. It is the same with first, second/mid-heaven, and third heaven
(Rev.14:6ASV ; Rev.8:13ASV ; 2Cor.12:2; Neh.9:6; Luke2:14NIV ).
The 144000 have attained their kingdom of truth with Christ, by being victorious over the world (Rev.3:21; Eph.2:6).
666 represents 3 liars... the Devil, the false prophet, and the sea beast.
Those who worship the beast's image, are under compulsion to serve and obey it. This is symbolized by having their thoughts, faith, and actions, directed by that Beast (Rev.16:13-14; 1Tim.4:1; Rev.13:16-18)
Two witnesses (12) represent truth.
(John8:17; Rev.11:3,12; Matt.17:3,5; Heb.12:1; Rev.1:7; Jude 1:14).
God's slaves are not the beasts slaves.
Instead of being marked by the false teachings of demons and of the Beast, they are marked as slaves of God, and marked by the truthful teachings of God which they serve and obey (Deut.11:18; Rev.14:1; 7:3)
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You said; "Rev 7:5-8 says that the sealed make up a portion of the 12 tribes."
I don't understand what you are saying. I see those verses as showing that all members of the 144000 are sealed. Can you clarify?
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Your question about suffering and why God has waiting so long, I'll give you a link for.
As regards your thought about God being satisfied with a past number of sealed anointed...
remember that God considers the anointed, His sons (Gal.3:26; 4:6).
If Jesus describes his love as a shepherd who leaves his 99 sheep to find one of his lambs, why would he abandon the harvest of the full number of anointed faithful? (Matt.18:12)
To illustrate;
If you had 12 sons who fell into a well, would you be satisfied after rescuing a few, abandoning the rest?
Well you may think that the other 9 do not yet exist, so you're not really abandoning them.
In God's mind of seeing the end from the beginning (Isa.46:9-10), all those who love Him and died, are living to him (Luke 20:38) as are all those whom He knows will love him, and have not yet been born (Ps.139:15-16; Eph.2:10; 2Thess.2:13-14; 1Cor.2:7) but who are written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation (Rev.13:8).
Jesus was not yet born when all the prophecies were written about him.
Like Jesus, God has a purpose for each anointed one, whether they presently exist, have already died, or have not yet been born. We are not His counselor in such matters (Rom.11:34-36; Isa.40:13).
Now, as regards the 24 elders...
As previously mentioned, 6 represents a testimony. 12 represents 2 witnesses, a testimony of truth. In this case, we have 4 witnesses or testimonies (6x4=24).
The 24 elders represent a unified, harmonious testimony given by this group throughout the 4 corners of the earth (N.S.E.W.). They are the teachers in the Body of Christ (1Cor.12:28; Eph.4:11; Matt.23:34; Acts 13:1; James 3:1).
Rev.4:10-11In fact, all those surrounding the thrones of God and Christ in heaven, are members of the body of Christ... members of Christ's bride and God's kingdom administration.
As we learn in 1Cor.12; Eph.2 and Eph.4, etc., there are many differing assignments in that Body... apostle, prophet, teacher, evangelists, healers, etc. There are also the watchmen, which are symbolized as the 4 living creatures (Mark 13:34NIV Mark13:35; John10:3 > LINK ).
The 24 elders are dressed in white robes, which is defined at Rev.19:8.
The means of attaining that robe, is defined at Rev.6:9-11; 7:13-14.
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