Tuesday, June 11, 2013

The Fallen Star

Good day Sister Doxsey,
Can you please comment on these two verses for me; 
Rev 8:10 and Rev 9:1. 
Why does the Society say that the star that had fallen is Jesus in Rev 9:1? 
Would you not say that the star in question is the very one that is mentioned in Rev 8:10? 

In Rev.1:20 we are told that the stars are the anointed Christians and in Rev.12:4 it is said that the dragon dragged a third of the stars to earth, is that not referring to the anointed? 

I am having difficulties in understanding the WT stand on these verses. In the Climax book it is said that the fallen stars in Rev.12:4 are those from Noah's day. Was not Revelation written about the things "about to take place" and not history? (Rev.1:1)

Thank you
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REV.8:10:
"The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great starblazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water"

 Eph.2:6; Heb.12:22-23; 2Pet.1:10; 3:17; Luke10:20;
Phil.2:15; Dan.12:3.
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REV.9:1:
"The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss."


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There are four reasons I know of, as to why the Organization of "Jehovah's Witnesses" believe that the "fallen star" of Rev.9:1 is Jesus Christ.
"Watchtower" reasoning:
1. Jesus is spoken of as coming "down out of heaven" (Rev.20:1)
    (Note: "coming down" is literally Greek:"katabainonta"="stepping down" Rev.20:1.
         "falling" is literally Greek:"epesen"="to stumble/trip and fall"Rev.8:10 - related to 2Pet.1:10)
2. Jesus is said to have the key to the abyss (Rev.20:1; 1:18)
3. The "stars" of Revelation are compared to "angels" (Rev.1:20)
    so they may view this star as Michael the Archangel. (Rev.12:7; 22:16)
   (They also view Job 38:7 as applying to the original creation...
    not prophetically to the new creation, so they would consistently
    see these angels as spirits in literal heaven.
         (Note: Greek "angel", when translated, simply means, "messenger")
         (See:gods-angels)
    "JW" doctrine has concluded, that "angel" is literal, and that all angels must be spirit beings
    of the sort which were never human [ Heb.1:7,14 (Ps.104:4); Heb.2:16; Gal.3:29 ].
   
4. JW's" can't imagine that their own collective anointed leader identity, with power over
    living spiritual waters ("springs" John4:14; Rev.8:10), could ever "fall".
    As long as such ones retain power and remain in subjection to the Organization
    (which has replaced direct subjection to God -Rom.1:25);
    they believe that they need not be concerned with "falling" from God's grace.
    (Jer.22:5; Matt.7:21; 23:38; Amos6:8; Rev.8:8) This is their false sense
    of "peace and security" (1Thess.5:3).

I do not agree with these interpretations. I hope to show by means of scripture, why I have this faith.
These interpretations can only hold incontrovertibly true, IF :

1. No other star but Jesus "falls from heaven"
    (right away we know this is not true, due to Rev.8:10,11)
2. No one else has a key to the Abyss
3. Stars/angels can only be spirit beings (not human messengers)
4. Anointed are NOT prophesied to "fall" in the Lord's Day, while
    they have the approval of men.

And lastly, any interpretations must be by means of scripture, and harmonious with Biblical context.

If the Bible informs us that:
1. Other stars "fall" from heaven;
   then we must explore the possibility that these other stars can also
   fulfill the prophecy of Rev.9:1. This possibility must be explored scripturally.
2. If these same others can also have a key to the abyss, the possibility
   that these fulfill this role is strengthened. Again, this must be
   examined scripturally.
     (http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/08/who-has-key-to-abyss.html)
3. If "stars"/"angels" are anointed human messengers *according to the Bible*,
   then this possible impact upon prophecy must be considered.
   "Angel" simply means "messenger". We must not assume then,
    that God's only messengers/angels,
    are unseen (Isa.43:10,11,21; 1Pet.2:9; 2Cor.5:20; Mal.2:7) (LINK).
4. If anointed ARE the symbolic stars/angels,
    and a "great" one is prophesied to "fall"
    during Revelation's end-time prophecies, then we can not assume
    that the fallen stars MUST be demon angels from the flood era (Rev.12:4),
    OR Jesus Christ (Rev.20:1), OR Christendom (Rev.8:10,11)
         (which is not an anointed star at all -Rev.1:20).

And lastly, if the stars of Rev.8:10 and Rev.9:1 prove Biblically true as consistently meaning anointed ones (Rev.1:20); that singular, cohesive, consistent interpretation, must be explored as an option for these prophetic fulfillment.
If this new prophetic interpretation also proves harmonious, not only to Revelation's context, but also to the Bible as a whole; it must be preferred as a more accurate interpretation; rather than those interpretations taken out of Revelation's full context.

  First let me point out that while the WT dismisses the possibility that the fallen star of Rev.9:1 can be anyone but Jesus Christ, their interpretation is not consistent with their interpretation of the fallen stars of Rev.8:10 or Rev.12:4.
The fallen star of Rev.8:10 is interpreted as human (Christendom); Yet Rev.12:4 is interpreted as ancient demonic figures.
Such baseless inconsistencies should not be assumed as true. If scripture itself points to a different, yet consistent identity for these "stars"/"angels"; it is reasonable to allow this harmonious scriptural consistency to persuade us.
Further reason exists, if this consistent identity is harmonious to parallel accounts of the same prophecies.

   1.Are anointed ones symbolized by "stars"/"angels" in the Bible
      and book of Revelation?
   2.Are anointed ones prophesied to "fall" "in the Lord's day"?
   3.Who else holds a "key" to the abyss?
      Can unfaithful anointed ones receive a "key" to the abyss?
      If so, from whom? For what purpose?

If ONE identity (unfaithful anointed ones) consistently fulfills ALL the meanings and descriptions of this fallen star (Rev.8:10; 9:1; 12:4) *according to scripture*, then we MUST consider this alternate interpretation. It is folly to interpret the very same symbol, inconsistently and out of context, and as unrelated to the rest of the Bible. (IE: "FALLEN STAR" = Jesus Christ, Christendom, flood demons)
What if ALL these "fallen stars" point to the same identity, according to the Bible?

I will approach each building block to our reasoning, separately.
I will not look to the thoughts of men for interpretation,
but to God's Word.

"STARS"


...Who does GOD'S WORD describe as "stars"?:
          Dan.12:3; Phil.2:15; Isa.49:6; Matt.5:16; 1Pet.2:9; Gen.15:5; Gal.3:29
            (Job 38:7 ("angels" Hebrew literally: "sons of God")
         (stars of the "morning" Isa.58:8; 60:1,2,3; 2Pet.1:19;
          1Thess.5:5; Matt.4:16; Job 38:7; Rev.1:20)
          ...Of the NEW CREATION
         (Gal.6:15; 2Cor.5:17; Eph.4:24; Col.3:10; Rev.21:5; 2Pet.3:13)


We should also note that Rev.8:10 speaks of this "great" fallen star as "blazing as a torch/lamp".

This reminds us of John5:35,33 and
Rev.4:5; 5:6; which is the light given off by a chosen one who is preaching (Matt.5:15,16,14; Isa.62:1).
   
Next I will show scriptures which reveal who the angels "messengers" of the book of Revelation are. This will not be based upon assumptions which seem apparent and surface, but by means of scripture.

ANGELS:

The first occurrence where Jesus introduces the "angel" messengers of Revelation, is at Rev.1:1,2:
"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ."

We are clearly told that this angel messenger is the one who delivers the "known" meaning of Revelation TO John (Rev.22:8-9; Amos 3:7; 2Pet.1:21). Why was not John given the full interpretation of Revelation directly in his own era (Rev.10:4)? Why did he need to have a messenger angel deliver it to him? Why was it shown to him "in the Lord's day"? (Rev.1:10)
Because, these things were not to be revealed until the Lord's Day (Dan.12:4; Rev.22:10). John "heard a voice "behind" him. This voice/"trumpet" (Rev.1:10; Isa.58:1) was to come after John's ministry. This voice is compared to "rushing waters" (see Rev.14:2; 19:6). These scriptures compare this sound to "harpists playing their harps" and "a great multitude" (Rev.19:1; 7:9,10). But when John turns to look; What does he see?
"I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands" (Rev.1:12)


Do these lampstands compare to the harpists, waters, trumpet, voice?
We are told that the seven lampstands are the seven churches/congregations of saints/"holy ones" (Rev.1:20; 1Cor.14:33) belonging to the seven angels (foundation of temple/apostles and prophets -Eph.3:4,5; 2:20; Amos3:7; Rev.10:7), two of which prophesy truth in the Lord's Day (Rev.11:4,3; John8:17). These two olive trees of the two lampstands, are the ones appointed to serve the Lord (Rev.11:4; 1:13; Zech.4:11,12,13,14; Matt.17:3; Num.10:2) Serve him how? To serve as messengers/"angels"/prophets (Rev.11:3,5). To whom? To their congregations/lampstands. The "stars" of each congregation (Phil.2:15), are the lights/torch/flame/star, for each lampstand, which supports them and holds them high (Matt.5:15; Heb.6:10-11).
Rev.1:20 B literally says:
"The mystery of the seven stars (anointed illuminators) that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the messengers OF the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches."

Here we are given a clear correlation between the "stars" and the "angels"/messengers OF the seven churches/Congregations.
Jesus tells us that angels and stars are the same identity (as messengers of light Rev.1:20 for their congregational lightstand). Yet according to Rev.8:10, one of THESE "falls" (Rev.2:5; 2Pet.1:10; 3:17; 2Cor.11:3). The context of Rev.8:10 (Rev.8:8,9,10,11) dissuades us from seeing this star as an unseen spirit. This is because these stars are not unseen. They are just as Jesus depicts the stars...as messengers/prophets of light, to their congregations. They are the light/flame/star, upon the support of their lampstand/congregation. Without prophetic light, a congregational lampstand is as if, unlit. It has no light. The light/fire of anointed prophets and apostles, has it's origin, in Christ...THE morning star. He shares his light/flame, with his faithful messengers [Luke3:16; Rev.2:18; (Matt.6:22); Rev.22:16; 2:26,27 (Hosea6:5; Jer.23:29; Rev.11:5) Rev.2:28,29; 1Cor.14:32; Jer.26:5,6; 2Pet.1:19; 1Thess.5:19,20].
Rev.1:20 begins by telling us that this is a mystery. Those given revelations/visions, into these mysteries (Num.12:6), and the responsibility to "voice" them, are the anointed apostles and prophet heralds (Zech.4:14; Rev.11:3,4; 1Cor.4:1; Rom.16:25; Matt.25:6)
and the congregational group who receive and are enlightened, by each of them (Matt.10:40,41,14; 1Thess.2:13; Rev.22:16,19).

You have likely discerned that I am promoting the idea that the angel messengers in Revelation are anointed priests/prophets. Lets look at more Bible evidence.
We are told that these angels are given seven trumpets (Rev.8:6; Matt.25:7)
      (Greek word "trumpet" associated with "voice" -Isa.58:1; Rev.1:10; 4:1).
Who does the Bible define these seven trumpet blowers to be, since we must get our interpretation from God and His Word? (Gen.40:8)

 Hosea8:1

Please consider these scriptures:

"Have seven priests carry trumpets of rams' horns in front of the ark. On the seventh day, march around the city seven times, with the priests blowing the trumpets. The seven priests carrying the seven trumpets went forward, marching before the ark of the LORD and blowing the trumpets. So Joshua son of Nun called the priests and said to them, “Take up the ark of the covenant of the Lord and have seven priests carry trumpets in front of it.” When Joshua had spoken to the people, the seven priests carrying the seven trumpets before the Lord went forward, blowing their trumpets, and the ark of the Lord’s covenant followed them. The armed men went ahead of them and the rear guard followed the ark of the LORD, while the trumpets kept sounding." Joshua 6:4,6,8,13
"The sons of Aaron, the priests, are to blow the trumpets. This is to be a lasting ordinance for you and the generations to come." Num.10:8

According to God's interpretation by scripture, the seven angels who blow the seven trumpets (horns), are priests (Joshua 6:4; Rev.8:6; 5:9,10; 6:9,10,11; 20:4,6; Mal.2:7; Eze.44:23; Hosea8:1)
These are not unseen, unheard spirit beings. They are anointed priestly prophets who have been chosen to bear the message of Christ throughout the earth in the time of the end. (See Rev.5:6) (Matt.24:27; Heb.9:11; Zech.3:8,9; Isa.4:2; 11:1; Zech.6:12; Dan.9:25; Heb.3:1; Dan.8:13,14).
(Rev.5:6; Heb.1:14; Zech.4:10; Rev.1:4; 4:6; Ps.104:4; Rev.4:8; Isa.62:6)

Making the way in front of them, the original Levite priests had "the armed guard". Following them was the "ark" and behind that was "the rear guard"....
"The armed guard marched ahead of the priests who blew the trumpets, and the rear guard followed the ark. All this time the trumpets were sounding. When Joshua had spoken to the people, the seven priests carrying the seven trumpets before the Lord went forward, blowing their trumpets, and the ark of the Lord’s covenant followed them." (Joshua 6:9,8)
There is no such human entourage for the final prophets. Of them YHWH says;
"Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard." Isa.58:8

Unlike the final false prophets (Jer.17:5; Ps.146:3), The "glory of YHWH" alone will protect the path and accomplished work of the final anointed priests (Isa.59:1; 50:2; Num.11:23; Ps.89:21; 91:15; Psalm18:1-50; Zech.13:9; Isa.65:24; Matt.6:8; Zech.4:6).
The faithful have no "elder" army, no organization, nor obedient slaves with them, as the unfaithful do... (Rev.13:7,8,12,14,15,16,17). The faithful anointed priests put their trust in God alone (Ps.37:5; Prov.28:26; 3:5,6; John16:23; Isa.4:1,2,3,4; Jer.39:17; Isa.38:20; 30:19,26; 33:24; 41:17; 62:1; Jer.30:17; Ps.68:24; 116:2; 146:2)
Unlike the final false prophets (1Tim.5:24) the only thing going before the final faithful priest prophets, is their righteous acts (Rev.19:8; 3:4; 15:6; 19:14; 1Tim.5:25; Ps.37:6; 85:13; Isa.62:2; 26:2; 58:8,9,10) due to God Himself (Isa.52:12; 58:11,14) and their endurance, in fine works (Isa.58:1,2; Micah3:2; Isa.66:18; 45:22; 52:10,12; 56:8; Rev.2:2,29; James1:4,18; 2:5,24; 5:11; Mark13:13).

("Horns" are anointed kings Rev.17:12,16,18; 1:5; 5:6,10)
["Eyes" symbolize insight and understanding (Rev.3:18; Matt.6:22; Luke11:34)]
[That insight is by God's spirit (Rev.1:14; 5:6; Matt.10:20; John16:13; 14:17; 1John2:20,27,28)
given to the seven "angels"/priests/horns (Rev.1:4; 3:1; 4:5; Matt.5:15,16,14; Rev.5:6).
(two-witnesses-lampstands)
Next, we see in the first three chapters of Revelation, that Jesus disciplines the seven congregations/"lampstands", by directing a message to them, through each of the seven angels. When you look at the accusations that Jesus directs to these angels, do you perceive them as being human anointed "messengers" (Greek="angels"), or invisible spirits in heaven?
(Rev.2:1,2,3,4,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17, etc.)
Jesus calls these anointed ones, angels. According to Rev.1:20, they are, the stars.

Click here for more information about Rev.9


Genuine lamps and stars (Rev.1:20) can fall (Rev.2:5; 2Pet.3:17; Jude1:13) causing their lamp-light to become darkness.
Regarding such fallen stars and dimming lamps (Matt.25:8), a scripture which comes to mind is Matt.6:22,23;
“The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"
(pluck-out-your-eye)
If our perceptions (eye) are bad (based upon false doctrine rather than Christ's words -Matt.15:9; 7:26,27; 25:9,10; Rev.13:17); our understandings and faith are darkness (John3:20) and "the light that is in you is darkness" (Your teachings are sourced in Satan's abyss -James3:15; Rev.16:13; 2:9,24) and "how great is that darkness"...yes...because Satan is a Master at blinding deception, and he will afford every false sign and powerful portent to such a fallen, unfaithful, Great Lamp of Darkness (John8:44; 2Thess.2:9; Rev.12:9; 8:10,11; 9:1,2,3,11; Matt.24:5,24; Rev.13:11; 12:17; 2:20,5; 18:23) and her helpers (2Thess.2:4,9,10) in order to mislead the invited anointed. We must never replace the light of Christ (John8:12; 1John1:7; John12:35) with slavery to men (Gal.1:10; 1Cor.7:23; Rev.2:20; 13:15) and their dark doctrines....even if they are a genuine star/lamp (Rev.8:10,11; 9:1). We must "test out" the light in their lamp to see if it is genuinely from Christ's light (1John4:1; 2Cor.13:5; 1Tim.4:1; 2Thess.2:1,2,3).
If we are Chosen Ones who submit to such a dark steward,
then we too are fallen stars (2Cor.11:3; 2Pet.3:17; Rev.2:5). In fact, such mislead ones are the "third" of the stars that Satan's "tail"* (*the least of his minions -Deut.28:13) is able to cast down to the earth and cause to be trampled by them (Rev.12:4; 9:10,19; 11:2; 13:7).
Know this!......
This "third" of heaven's stars, are allowed to be cast down and trampled by Satan's power....not because they are sealed as wicked...but because God is allowing them to be disciplined and refined (Zech.13:9; Rev.3:19,18; Mal.3:1,2,3; Isa.48:10; 54:6,7,8; Jer.30:18; Hosea3:5)
Ironically...their being persecuted, trampled, "killed", and cast down and out of the wicked City, is so that they will survive (Isa.57:1; Micah7:2; Rev.18:4; Luke21:20,21,22; Isa.10:22; Ps.71:20,21; Micah7:8,9,10; Ps.66:10,11,12) (Eze.7:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8; Rev.14:19; 18:4).
Yet in order for this discipline to have a saving conclusion for this "third", they must, after being subjugated, stand up for truth despite the seeming threat to their lives. (Rev.3:2; Matt.25:7; Isa.60:1; Rev.12:10,11)

The fallen star of Rev.8:10,11 and Rev.9:1, is given the key to Satan's abyss of darkness and death, by it's king (Rev.9:11; John10:10; Isa.33:1; Heb.2:14).
For more on what this fallen star does with that key to deception and death, and who gives it to her,
here is a link:
http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/08/who-has-key-to-abyss.html

We are now in the period of time, when testing our faith is vital. We are in a period of testing tribulation. If our house of faith is built on the sands of untruth, it will fall (Matt.7:26,27,24,25; Eph.4:14; James1:6). In godly fear we beg our heavenly Father for protection through this test of our beliefs and faith, that we do not end in failure (Luke22:31; Matt.6:13; Phil.2:12; Rev.6:17; Jer.30:7; Joel2:1; Zeph.1:14; Luke21:36; Rev.3:10; Eph.6:18), praying for all the remnant, that as many as possible can awaken, be cleansed and refined, be "killed"...proving their unwavering love for truth, and become sealed. The sooner that happens, the sooner the 144000 can be completed, and the end can arrive (Rev.6:9,10,11; 13:15; 11:7; 12:10,11)!
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My personal notes for next continuation:
(Makes his angels spirits---you will live by the spirit in you---passed over from death to life---will never die at all. Key to Abyss---abyss is lies and death---Heb.2:14; 1Cor.15:54,57; 1John3:8; John8:44; Rev.9:11; Rom.5:17,12,15; James1:15; Rom.5:12; 1John3:8,5,10; Heb.9:26; )

I will continue to answer your questions as I am enabled.
--to be continued--

5 comments:

  1. Thank you, i really do hope that this helps many to see the truth as revealed by the Father and his Son through the holy spirit.

    Modise

    ReplyDelete
  2. Revelation 1.10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,

    My question to you, you are 100% sure that we are living on the Lord's day now?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 2Pet.3:4; Luke17:20; 2Pet.1:19; Luke1:78; 2Cor.4:6; Rev.22:16
      When you perceive the "capstone",
      then you will know (Rev.1:20; Zech.4:10,9; Rev.22:16; 1:1)

      Delete
  3. I know Jehovah's Witnesses have calculated the day of Jesus Christ. They use Daniel 4, it is written 7 times. are you sure Daniel 4 leads to Jesu day in 1914? or maybe it was just about the king of Babylon.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. First, let me state that I do not believe that the Kingdom started in 1914, nor that the prophetic fulfillment of the "seven times" in the time of the end, is literal as a chronological number of years. This article may help you examine my reasons:
      http://pearl-generation.blogspot.com/
      This is not only about the King of Babylon. Even that identity is prophetic, and is seeing fulfillment today.
      I will write more about the seven times when spirit finishes teaching me these things. I can tell you with certainty, that the "Gentiles" are STILL ruling (Rev11:2; Luke21:24; Rev.13:7; 2:10; 6:9,10,11)
      Another article that may help clarify the signs of the end, and the timing of the genuine birth of the Kingdom:
      http://pearl-sign.blogspot.com/

      Delete

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