Monday, June 16, 2014

The "Garden of Eden" / New Creation / Seven Spirits / Tree of Life / The True Vine

I think I am done EDITING. So much was added and clarified during editing, so if you read it before, I hope you will reconsider.


Good morning sister D
Thank you for your loving response and help. Whenever I read your emails I wish we could be talking face to face over a cup of rooibos (south african tea).  You always seem to have the right answers whenever I am faced with difficulties.
Last week I was having a chat with a friend at work about the trees in Eden and ever since I have been thinking about it. A while back we briefly spoke about what the trees symbolized.  If I still remember correctly you said the tree of life symbolizes Jesus and the other one Satan.
1. Why did Adam and Eve only realize that they were naked after they had eaten?
2. In what way did they hear the voice of God walking (Gen 3:8) if the voice/"Word" is Jesus?
3. "JW's" teach that it took years for Eve to persuade her husband to eat. Why is it that God did not punish Eve for eating the forbidden fruit right away?
4. If the tree of life is Jesus, why did God post angels around the tree?
5 I have heard that the trees disappeared or were destroyed by the flood, is that true?
I do realize that this a handful of questions amid all the work you have already.
Many thanks

1. Why did Adam and Eve only realize that they were naked after they had eaten?

Hello Modise,
I think I answered your first question in the "Two Trees" link.

Here is some thoughts from there:

All those who represent a teaching authority,
are represented in the Bible as trees.
(Matt.12:33,34; 7:17,20; Rev.2:7; 3:20; 22:2; Psalm1:3; Jer.17:8; Isa.65:22; Zech.4:3,14)
The anointed who receive the kingdom,
and channel God's life-giving waters through their "fruit" and "leaves",
are even called trees of life,
just as the original Tree of Life was called.
Their mouth will produce fruit according to the abundance of their own heart.
(Luke6:45; Matt.12:33-37; 7:20; Heb.13:15; John1:1,4; 8:12; 12:46; Prov.11:30; 10:11; 3:13,18; Eph.5:8-12)
    Also remember, that when Adam and Eve wanted to hide their sin from God,
what did they do?
They covered their private parts. (Gen.3:7,10,11)
Do you remember what the desire was,
of the spirits who left heaven? (Gen.6:1,2)
Can you consider the possible reason why Satan wanted to guide Eve (not Adam) into sin?
Yet to do so, he first had to offer Eve symbolic "fruit"...
  teachings that mislead, and went contrary to God's instruction through the "Word".

To a innocent child... their private parts seem to be the same as any other part (eye, nose, ear, elbow, genitals),
other than their ability to produce waste. Adam and Eve felt no reason to cover their genitals, any more than they thought it necessary to cover their elbows. Yet after sinning, they felt shame in connection with the body part that was used to sin. It was their genitals which were involved in defying God's command, not to let their actions be guided by the Tree of knowledge. We have a natural reasoning, that our crimes are discovered in connection with the tool used to sin.  Adam and Eve obviously thought that if God could not see their parts marred by sin, He would not see their sin, and their transgression involving the forbidden tree.
Let me illustrate.
If a murderer used a particular weapon to kill, which weapon he would try to hide afterward?
What reason would he have to hide a different weapon? 
    Adam and Eve had no shame previous to their sin (Gen.2:25). Hence there was no need to hide their genitals.
It was only after they acquired "the knowledge of good and bad" (by a comparison between them which they had never grasped before),
that they felt guilty about their genitals, and tried to hide them from God.
They used their genitals in a corrupt way, which was not according to God's perfect and healthful design.
(Gen.2:23,24,25; Eph.5:3,5,6,12,25,26,27,28; 2Cor.11:2,3,4)  (Rom.1:26,24; Col.3:5; 1John2:16)
I hope this explains the answer to your first question.
2. In what way did they hear the voice of God walking (Gen 3:8) if the voice/word is Jesus?

Regarding Gen.3:8, and God "walking" in the midst of where Adam and Eve were, and that this is associated with the voice of the "Word"...
Please read Lev.26:12 and Deut.23:14.
There you will see that God, through His seven spirits (and "seven eyes"), can focus on a particular area of the earth 
(Gen.1:2; 2Chron.16:9; Job24:23; Prov.15:3; Jer.16:17; Zech.3:9; 4:10), 
...through His messengers which He sends (consider Gen.18:2,17,20,21,22) (** Gen.18:27).
Can you see that Abraham called God's materialized angel messenger, "Yhwh"/"the Lord"?**
This was not actually God (Ex.33:20; John1:18), but His representative. 
Dealing with God's representatives, is the same as dealing with God 
(John12:45; 14:9,10) (Rev.21:3; Eph.2:22; 2Cor.6:16; Matt.10:20; 18:18). 
We will see why...
Can you see that God "examined" the situation in Sodom and Gomorrah through His representative? God's justice expects actual witnesses to testify before He executes His condemnation. Yet any who are sent, contain within them, God's spirit...
who "sees" and "speaks" through them, just as today (Matt.10:20; 1Cor.6:17,19). This was especially so through the Word...since that was his designation and assignment. In fact, we are directly told that Jesus Christ/The Word, is so unified with His father (John10:30; 17:21) that he is depicted as possessing entirely, those "seven eyes/seven spirits" of God.
Rev.5:6 reads:
"Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth."

Can you see that God's spirit is fully represented by, and dwells within the "Word", Christ (Col.2:9; John10:30; 17:21)?
When he is in the earth, so is the spirit of God; And so is God's presence with man (1John1:5; Ps.36:9; John1:1,4,9,14,18).
Think about one of Jesus' names....
"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us")." (See also Isa.7:14)
This is also the case with the "144000" (See Matt.5:14; Rev.21:2,3,22; 22:3; 1Cor.3:16).
In fact, the words "tabernacle" and "tent" occupy and be present within. 

At first, that presence (light) was only with mankind, through the Word/Lamb/Tree of life (John9:5; 8:12; 12:46). But now (and since the first century) God is present with mankind, through His temple. (John1:1,14,4; 6:63,68; Rev.5:6; 2Cor.3:6) which Christ founded with his death (John2:19,21; 1Cor.12:27; 1Pet.2:4,5; Eph.2:20,21,22). 

Jesus promised to give those who faithfully conquer, three provisions for life: (Rev.2:7,17,28). 
Did you see what they are? 
1. "hidden manna" 2. "the morning star" 3. "the right to eat from the tree of life".
He also tells us, that he himself, is the "morning star" and the "hidden manna":
(Rev.22:16; John6:48,49,50,31,51,63) ("hidden"-- Mark8:29,30; John14:21,22; 6:51,65; Matt.13:11; Col.2:2,3; Isa.29:11; Dan.12:10)
(Rev.3:20; John14:23; 11:25,26).
Can you see from the previous scriptures, that the "hidden manna", and the "morning star" (given to the faithful conquerors) IS JESUS CHRIST? (John14:21)
Regarding the promise to also be given "the right to eat from the tree of life"(John6:57; Rev.2:7; 22:14)...
Remember....the fruit of a tree is it's sayings from it's heart (Matt.12:33,37,35; 15:18) (Matt.7:15,16,17,18,19,20) (Luke6:45; Prov.16:23).
("Two Trees")
             Note Matt.7:15, the word "inwardly"; meaning, in their heart,
             they have "thornbushes" and "thistles" (Matt.7:16). What are thornbushes
             and thistles, if not "weeds"? These have not accepted and 
             cultivated the Word in their hearts, and are therefore, not wheat.
             They therefore, cannot offer "fine fruit" to their hearers (Matt.7:16).
             (Matt.13:30; James1:21; Luke8:15)

The "Word" of God is the "word of life" (Phil.2:16; John5:24; 6:51,63,68)
Jesus's sayings ("fruit"), are eternal life to those who accept and keep them (John6:57,63; Prov.4:13; Matt.7:24; John5:21). He is the source of eternal life, through the "fruit" (words/teachings/sayings/light) that he offers to those whom the Father draws to Christ (John6:65; 2John3:17).
Jesus Christ is God's messenger of life...and his fruitful words mean everlasting life to those who take them in. He is, the "Word" of God...the messenger of life, light, and truth, and the Tree of Life (Heb.1:1,2,3; John6:57). I hope that you can see that the scriptures do indicate this.

Christ's spirit (in union with, possessing, and embodying God's seven spirits), is distributed, and poured into the hearts of those anointed with it (2Cor.5:5; Eph.1:14; Rom.8:16; 2Cor.1:21,22; 1John2:8,20,24,25; 1Thess.5:5; Rev.1:16), thereby making them one with God and Christ (John17:21; 1Cor.6:17). (Matt.5:14,15,16; John14:17; 15:8; 1Cor.6:19) They are then to imitate Christ, offering light/life, as God's messenger angels (Rev.2:1; 3:1; 1:20; 8:6; Josh.6:8; Mal.2:7; Rev.5:10). 
For those final sealed prophets/two witnesses/"capstone" of the "Temple"; this includes possessing the seven spirits of God, sent out into all the earth (for the final harvest/examination and judgment by God's eyes  --John12:48; Rev.20:11,12; 17:14; Dan.7:21,22).
(Rev.4:4,5,8; Matt.24:31; Zech.4:8,9,10; Matt.13:41; Rev.14:15,16,17,18,19; Deut.32:32)

Jesus is the true "vine"...those anointed in union with him, are the "branches" (John15:4,5). 
What they receive from Jesus (the "nourishing sap" -Rom.11:17; Rev.22:16), is holy spirit (Rom.5:5). 
The branches are to express that spirit (Luke6:45), as God (the "vine's cultivator -John15:1) has determined and distributed 
(1Cor.12:4,11,18,28; 7:7; Eph.4:7; Heb.2:4).
Those branches are then expected to produce fruit (John15:2,6; Matt.7:19; Gal.5:22,25; Eph.4:29,12,16; Luke6:45,44)...which include sayings of life... fruit which is filled with that living water/holy spirit sourced in Christ, the true vine (Rev.22:17). Those who eat the fruit of the true vine and it's true branches, will live!
This is why, not only is Christ the Tree of Life,
his 144000 also are (Rev.22:1,2; John13:20).

So when God's spirit is sent out into the earth (in order to examine hearts, give understanding, provide life, judge, etc.), it is channeled through the person of Jesus Christ. He is the mediator between God and man (including Adam) (1Tim.2:5,6,4), even back in Eden (John1:1,2,3,4,18) (Gen.3:8).

The seven spirits which Christ sends into the earth, he sends by means of the seven stars/angels/lamps (Rev.1:16,20; 8:6; 1:12,20; 4:5; Ex.25:37; 40:25; Num.8:2; Zech.4:2,3,4,5,10,14; Rev.11:3,4; Rev.10:7; 22:16,6....Christ's own messenger ambassadors, substituting for him (2Cor.5:20). This is because the sealed anointed are one with God's spirit, as Jesus is (John17:21,22,23; 1Cor.3:16; Rev.1:4,16,20; 2:1; 3:1; 4:5; 5:6; Isa.11:2; Col.2:3) (Eph.1:17; Luke21:15; 1Cor.1:30,24; 2:16; 1John4:13).

So can you see, that when Adam and Eve heard the voice of God in the midst of the Garden,
as His "eyes/spirit" sought to examine Adam and Eve,
that this would be embodied in the "Word" (as God's representative)???
I hope so, because although the spirit realities are sometimes hard to perceive by physical persons;
they are, none the less, the realities.
3. JW teach that it tooks years for Eve to persuade her husband to eat, why is it that God did not immediately punish Eve for eating the forbidden fruit?

Regarding your third question, I am not familiar with that doctrine. But I can show you why I believe it to be false.
The only indication of timing the Bible gives, is that the next time Eve was with Adam,
she offered him the same knowledge that she accepted from Satan (Gen.3:6)
    (Here is a link to the interlinear, which shows that at the time Adam was with Eve, she gave it to him.
This gives the impression that she offered what she had learned, as soon as she saw Adam, following her own sin.)
4. If the tree of life is Jesus, why did God post angels around the tree?

Regarding your fourth question...
The description that follows in Genesis, regarding the consequences to Adam and Eve, have a symbolic meaning.
I am not saying that these things did not happen physically, but the meaning for us is symbolic.
For example, when God said that the ground would be cursed, and only produce "thorns and thistles", this is also symbolic (Gen.3:17,18).
(see Isa.34:13; 32:13; Luke8:7,14; Matt.7:16; 2Cor.12:7; Eze.28:24; Micah7:4,6). The "curse" of the ground, is lifted for the sealed anointed (Rev.22:3; Isa.55:13; 51:3; 52:1,2) (Luke8:8,15; James1:21; 1Pet.1:23). Can you see that this is symbolic?

So let us look at Gen.3:24 from this perspective.
This is very deep, and quite a lot could be written just about the symbolism of this one verse. I will cover it briefly, and please let me know if more of a certain point is required.
"After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life." (Gen.3:24)
This is very hard to put into a nutshell, but here goes...
The "Garden of Eden" filled with "trees of every kind...good for food" is one symbol for the "mountain of God"/Zion (Gen.2:9; Eze.47:12; Isa.41:19; 27:6; Rev.22:1,2; Isa.61:3,4) (Matt.15:13; Isa.44:23; Jer.17:8; Eze.47:7,12; Prov.3:13,18). Unfaithful "Wormwood" is also referred to in this way (Eze.28:13,14,16; Rev.18:11; Eze.31:8,9,10,11; Rev.8:10,11; 9:1,2,11; 17:4). 
Like Eve, she also became defiled by Satan, and was also cast out.
She will be brought low, and those whom she abased, will rise (Matt.23:12; Dan.4:17; Eze.36:35)
The entrance to Eden which was closed (Gen.3:24; Rev.15:8), re-opens to the righteous (Isa.26:2; Ps.118:19; Isa.60:11,18,21; Rev.21:12,21,25,27; 22:14,15; Eze.44:9) (1John1:1,2; 5:13,20; 4:9; John3:16; 14:21,22). So too, access opens to the tree of life (John6:57; Rev.22:14; 1John1:1,2; 5:20).

The tree of life represents God's gift of life through Christ (1John4:9; John6:57; John3:16; 5:26; 1:4; Acts3:15). That gift is also represented by the arc of the covenant, guarded by "two cherubim" (1Kings8:6; 6:27; 2Kings19:15; Ps.80:1; 99:1; Eze.10:1)
When the symbolic garden of Eden is restored, and the trees of life are accessible again,
the sanctuary is "opened", and living waters/manna/the law tablets (Heb.9:4; 2Cor.3:3), once again "flow" from the throne of God, and from the sanctuary in heaven.
(Ps.18:6,10; 80:1; Isa.37:16; Eze.10:1; Rev.11:19; 15:5; Eze.47:1; Rev.22:1,17; Heb.8:5; Jer.3:15,16,17).

So when we read that the "tree of life" was guarded by cherubim, we can hopefully perceive that this reality is prophetic and spiritual, and is still very much with us. 
It is the "two cherubim" (Rev.11:3), that determine who it is that are permitted to receive of life's provisions 
(Matt.16:19; Mark10:37,40; Zech.4:3; Matt.17:2,3,11; Isa.61:4,3; Jer.1:10; 2Cor.10:4; Rev.2:26,27; Zech.4:3,14; Rev.11:4,3), 
thereby guardians of the "arc of the covenant" AND the "tree of life" (Rev.22:14; Ps.118:20; John10:9,7; Rev.21:12; 22:14; 1Cor.4:1; Luke12:42).
Not all are permitted access to the "tree of life" 
(Matt.13:11,12; 10:13,14,15; 7:6; Mark6:11; Luke10:11; Isa.29:11; Luke8:10; John6:65; 1Cor.2:10; 2Cor.4:3,4,5,6; 
Rev.22:15; 21:27; Isa.52:1 b; Joel3:17; Nahum1:15).

You see Modise...There is a "new creation", which follows exactly the original physical creation, in each of it's stages of "seven days".
These correspond to the "seven times" of purification of God's Holy Nation of 144000....
"Let there be light...a parting of the waters above and below...the sun for the light of day and the moon for night...the trees for food...the forming of the second Adam, and the forming of the second Eve from Adam's rib, through which Christ's heart was pierced.
    All of it takes on spiritual significance for the "new creation", which will inherit the original creation, which has now begun restoration through the spiritual justification.

The "angels" posted around the tree of life (empowered by a flaming sword -Rev.19:12,13,15; Heb.4:12; Jer.23:29)
are God's messengers of life and judgment (1Cor.6:2). They have many scriptural representations and appearances.

These things are the deep things of God. At times, I am given insight into them, without knowing how I can ever explain them simply and clearly. I do not want to make it too involved, but it is hard to keep simple (Hebrews 5:9,11). I hope you can understand the reply to what you ask.
5. I have heard that the trees disappeared or were destroyed by the flood, is that true?

Your last question reflects the thinking of physical men, which is the basis for so many WT doctrines (1Cor.2:14,13).
Although all things written about the garden of Eden have a spiritual meaning for the New Creation 
(Gal.6:15,16; Rom.6:4; John1:13; 2Cor.5:16,17,18,19,20);
any original physical elements involved are long gone, and are now insignificant.
I hope my reply was satisfactory. Please follow up if you feel the need.



  1. hi sister D

    you said " They used their genitals in a
    corrupt way, which was not
    according to God's perfect and
    healthful design."

    my question is, can we today commit the original sin?


    1. Hello Modise,
      We cannot commit the original sin, within the exact circumstances, but we can imitate the same sin.
      In other words, perfect Eve first sinned in a physical and spiritual way, with Satan. We cannot imitate this in every detail.
      But we are capable of desiring the same perversions, and practicing them. This is now the natural behavior of Adam and Eve's descendants.
      But God is seeking to gather a people who seek to be cleansed of sin, become His children, and belong to Him.
      Such ones are guided by God's direction, and not Satan's. Genuine love does not corrupt the heart, but lust does (1John2:16; Gal.5:16,19,22,23; 2Pet.2:10,12).
      See Eph.2:3; 4:18,19; 1Thess.4:4; 1Cor.6:19,20.
      Although these next scriptures primarily apply in a spiritual sense, they can also guide us physically:
      The Bible helps us to see that being ruled by the desires of the flesh, enslaves us; not to God, but to our own distorted and corrupt desires (Col.3:5,6; Rom.8:12,13). We should be sanctified by God's guidance (Eph.5:26; John15:3) to live a new life, freed from the legacy of Adam and Eve. Our hearts can be cleansed to become pure and sanctified, just as is proper for those professing allegiance with a Holy God.


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