The Greatest Tribulation -- What and Why?

[NOTE: If you wish to listen to the meetings which review this post, there are approximately 9 of them, starting with this meeting link of 22/09/2000: (https://soundcloud.com/user-192860936/25-sep-2022-17-21-47-edt-1lghaesnxnec-2). Please be patient with the introduction, because the meetings are sometimes open to initial questions that are discussed before this post's material.

The meeting recordings that cover this post are dated between September and December. There are also a few other discussion recordings, peppered into that period. The title on each recording, should indicate the content within each recording.]
*  *  *  *  *  *  *

At Matt. 24:21; Jesus said concerning a development at the time of his return,
"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again."

Here Jesus confides that the type of distress which occurs at that time, will have never been preceded, nor will it be repeated.
Many have contemplated and expounded on what manner and form in which this "great tribulation" will manifest itself. Such opinions point to it's source as being economic, warfare, famine, natural disasters, spiritual persecution and disintegration of morality.   
  While Jesus does list these conditions as concurrent symptomology of the great tribulation, these conditions are symbolic (Signs), and only secondary manifestations of the Great Tribulation. They are not the root cause.
Why do I say this?
First, many object to these "signs" as being unique to the "last days" (Matt. 24:3;  2Tim. 3:1). When interpreted in a physical and literal sense, that is correct. Mankind's woes have existed since Adam and Eve were expelled from Eden 

(Gen. 3:17-18; Heb. 6:8-9; Rom. 8:18-22; Job 14:1-2).
Some assert that what makes these literal "signs" unique to the last days, is the unprecedented degree in which they occur. Although these woes have intensified in modern times, one must remember, that Satan controls the world and all that takes place within it (1John 5:19; Rev. 12:9,12). He can certainly increase such woes upon the planet (Rev. 12:12 B), in order to fulfill a literal and false interpretation of the signs Jesus listed (Matt. 13:10,11; Mark 4:34; Matt. 24:3) 

(pearl-sign.blogspot.com).

The only way to achieve an authentic interpretation of Christ's description of the time of the end 
(and the manifestation/appearance, of his "presence"/coming - 2Thess. 2:8), 
is if the scriptures themselves are used as the means to arrive at one's interpretation.
The scriptures provide much information about this time period. All that information is a part of the whole picture, and as pieces of a puzzle, those pieces of information should not be compartmentalized, but must be assembled into a whole before an accurate image is perceptible. Then we will know where each piece fits, and how each piece relates to the other pieces.

In fact, every description of the last days is speaking of the same scenario. Once we grasp that, scriptural details converge, and the whole harmonious truth, emerges.



A literal puzzle piece usually has four sides. One must seek out where one side fits with one side of another piece. As more pieces are similarly matched up, other nearby pieces also fit additional sides, until there are no more gaps and the last pieces and all their sides, fit perfectly. Things are the most confusing, right at the start. Yet, we must start someplace. I will start at Matt. 24:21.

If we examine that verse as if it were a puzzle piece, we see that on one of it's "sides", it asserts that the great tribulation is a singular, unique situation. Now we need to search the scriptures for a matching side. Where else in the Bible, is this unique, singular situation mentioned? 
In the book of Joel, (which also describes the time of the end), we find our match. As we assemble this puzzle, each found piece adds more information to the whole picture.

"A day of darkness and gloom,
A day of clouds and thick darkness.
As the nightfall is spread over the mountains,
So there is a great and mighty army;
There has never been anything like it,
Nor will there be again after it
To the years of many generations." Joel 2:2 (NIV)

Joel 2:2 Jer. 13:16 ("Dusk", not "Dawn">LINK)

Joel 2:2 (ESV) Joel 2:5 (ESV) Joel 2:7 (ESV)
(See Dan. 12:1) When we connect these two verses, we learn that the great tribulation/testing/sifting, is the result of "a great and mighty army" (Jer. 4:5-7,9-13,16-21,27-28; Rev. 13:4,7; Dan. 7:19,23 c). It is the threat and power of this abominable army, and the desolation it causes to God's people (upon God's people (< LINK) - 1Pet. 2:10,9), that is unprecedented (Matt. 24:15; Dan. 7:7,19,23,24; 2:40). The spiritual darkness/thick gloom (John 12:35;  1John 1:6) that this army spreads (Rev. 9:2,3; Joel 2:2 (NIV) ; Jer. 13:16), is so insurmountable and overwhelming, that the salvation of God's Chosen Ones, is then threatened (tails-stingers-scorpions) 

(Rev. 13:7; Dan. 8:10-11; Rev. 11:2; 13:10; Luke 21:24; Isa. 63:18; Matt. 5:13). 
(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/trample-how-does-it-happen.html)
(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/05/why-jesus-came-to-earth-last-world.html)
As Jesus continues in Matt. 24:22,24...

"Unless those days had been cut short (Job 18:7; Ps. 89:45; 102:23; Rev. 12:12; 20:3), no life would have been saved* (Matt. 19:25-26; Luke 13:23-24; 18:26-27; Matt. 7:14-15); but for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short (2Thess. 2:8; Rev. 20:9; 11:5; 12:10,11) (Matt. 24:22; Rev. 3:10; Luke 22:53). 

For false Christs and false prophets will arise (Matt. 7:15; 24:4-5,11,24-25; Rev. 19:20; 2:20; 13:11,15,7; Dan. 8:11-12;  2Thess. 2:4,9-12) and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, *if possible, even the elect.".

(2Cor. 11:3-4,20; Rev. 2:20; Col. 2:8; Rev. 13:10; 14:12)
(Matt. 19:25-26 * --men are mislead by Satan, without the protection of God.)

When a puzzle piece is correctly placed, all sides match up. We detect such compatibility, if we look at another "side" of Joel 2:2 (NIV) ....

"A day of darkness and gloom,
A day of clouds and thick darkness.
As the nightfall is spread over the mountains,
So there is a great and mighty army;
There has never been anything like it,
Nor will there be again after it
To the years of many generations."

This matches up with another side of Matt. 24:29...
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken."
(also Joel 2:10) (Isa. 59:9-10)
The darkness of this army, is able to snuff out, even the symbolic heavenly luminaries 

(Rev. 22:16; Dan. 12:3; Phil. 2:15; Dan. 8:11,25; Ps. 107:10).

(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/sun-moon-and-stars.html)

We have matched up two pieces, but we can branch out to add more to Joel's army. What army exists in the time of the end, that is so fearsome and powerful, that they and their darkness "spreads over the mountains" (Jer. 13:16-17) like a swarm of locusts (Amos 5:18; Zeph. 1:15), leaving nothing living behind them but a swath of death? 
(Joel 2:3-5,9-10,17,31-32; 1:4,6,12,19)(Joel 2:3;  1Cor. 15:26; Rev. 6:8)

[ Rev.9:3,5;  1Cor. 15:55 (NKJV )]

    [meaning of mountains/hills: 

(Rev. 17:9 (NKJV) Rev. 17:9-10; Matt. 5:14-15; Rev. 8:8-12)]
We also find matching informational pieces about the time of the end, in the book of Revelation. This is where we can find more information about this unprecedented army, which overtakes the remnant of God's people in the time of the end 

(Rev. 13:7; Dan. 8:17,11,13; Rev. 11:2; Dan. 11:35,31-33; Rev. 13:10; Luke 21:24; Col. 2:8; Matt. 24:15-16).

One "side" of Joel's puzzle piece tells us, that the soldiers in this army, have teeth like lions (Joel 1:6; Rev. 13:2; 9:8; Ps. 57:4,3; Dan. 8:10; Luke 21:24; Rev. 11:2; Dan. 7:7; Rev. 13:1), swarm like locusts (Joel 1:4), cause the sky and mountains to darken (Joel 2:2 (ESV) Joel 2:10), look like war horses (Joel 2:4), cause people anguish and torment (Joel 2:6) a devouring fire accompanies them (Joel 1:19-20; 2:3,5), and they attack God's own people (Joel 2:18,32; 1:6; Mal. 2:1-2).

Do we find matching pieces in Revelation's description of this unprecedented army, which will add to our completing the picture?

Joel 1:6 ----- Rev. 9:8
Joel 1:4 ----- Rev. 9:3 ("scorpions" -Eze. 2:6; Luke 10:19-20)
Joel 2:2 (ESV) Joel 2:10 ----- Rev. 9:2-3 (Isa. 48:10)
Joel 2:4 ----- Rev. 9:7,17,19
Joel 2:5 ----- Rev. 9:9
Joel 2:6 ----- Rev. 9:5-6
Joel 2:3 ----- Rev. 9:18,20 (Zech. 13:8-9; Isa. 48:10; Rev. 2:16; 13:10)
Joel 1:6* ----- Rev. 9:4; 7:3 (my land=unsealed=not yet sealed)
*("a nation has invaded  *my land" -Joel 1:6; Jer. 5:17,18,19) 

  (1Cor. 3:9; John 15:1; 14:23) 

*("world-earth-home")

More sides are matching up, and the picture is growing.
Now we can see why such great tribulation comes upon God's people (who are not yet sealed). They face an alliance (iron+and+clay Dan. 2:40-43) that is stronger than any foe they have ever faced in all history 
(Rev. 12:17; 13:1,4,11,14-15; 11:7; 6:9,11) (Rev. 16:13-16; 19:19-20).
Jesus said that if our time of unsealed captivity and trampling under them... 

    (Col. 2:8;  2Cor. 11:20; Rev. 2:20; Micah 3:5; Rev. 13:10,7; 11:2; 9:4,10) (Obey men?) 

...were not cut short, none would be saved 

(Matt. 24:22; 7:13-14; Luke 13:23-24; 18:26-27). 

(Matt. 24:22; Rev. 3:10; Luke 22:53)

  [As each one begs God for rescue, the power is removed/cut short for them as individuals. -- Think of the life of a hurricane. As long as that storm lasts, it lashes those under its influence, yet it does not hit all towns, houses, or people at the same time. Its power ends (is cut short) where its influence ends, even though the storm may still be raging for others.]
For the sake of the remnant (whose salvation must also be threatened), Christ will intervene 
(Jer. 31:7; Luke 1:78; Rev. 22:16; 2:28; Mal. 4:2;  2Pet. 1:19; Isa. 60:1; Luke 1:78; Acts 3:20-21; Dan. 12:1; Rev. 12:7,11; 17:14). 

Those set free (John 8:32,36; Isa. 61:1; 42:7; Luke 4:18; Joel 2:25-27) 
can then join Christ / (Michael -Rev. 12:7), in the battle for truth and freedom 
(Rev. 2:2;  2Cor. 10:4,5; Eph. 6:11-17; 2:6; Rev. 19:14; 17:14; 20:9; 11:5; Jer. 23:29; 25:29).

   +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +    +

If we were to pursue more scriptural "sides" to these pieces, we could match up every side with more detailed information, causing our perceptions and understanding of the last day scenario and it's time of tribulation, to expand. 
We would learn that this flooding army is also the fourth beast described by the prophet Daniel (Dan. 7:7,19-27; 2:40-44; Dan. 8:17,19), by John (Rev. 11:2; 13:1,5-7; 17:12,14) and by most of the prophets (Hab. 1:7-11; Eze. 38:16; 35:5; Jer. 23:20; 12:10,11; Amos 8:10; 4:2; Micah 5:4; 4:1; Hosea 3:5; Mal. 3:1-3; Ps. 66:10-12; Isa. 2:2-4,11-12,18-19,22; 51:23; Zech. 13:8-9; 1Cor. 3:13) (Rev. 6:7-8; Eze. 5:17,8,11; 14:21-23,5).

(1Cor. 10:11,6;  2Pet. 1:19; Rom. 15:4;  1Tim. 4:1; Rev. 16:14-15,13,16; 17:14)

"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again." (Matt. 24:21)

So there is a great and mighty army;
There has never been anything like it,
Nor will there be again after it
To the years of many generations." (Joel 2:2 (NIV) -b)
(Joel 1:2)

The Great Tribulation is a spiritual assault by Satan upon the remnant 

(Rev. 12:17; 20:7-10; 16:13-16;  1Tim. 4:1; Luke 21:20-22) 
(1,000 years -- When?), 
through the greatest spiritual foe and Army that has ever existed 

[Rev. 13:1,4; 11:2; 9:7,10; Luke 22:31; 21:20-22,24; Mark 13:14 -(Num. 18:7); Matt. 24:15-16]
  It has a deceptive, dominating, priestly - princely veneer... 

(Jer. 7:4,8; Eze. 44:6-9; Rev. 9:7; Nahum 3:17)

(Dan. 11:21; Ecc. 10:5-7;  2Cor. 11:20,4; Matt. 5:13; Dan. 8:10-13; 7:7,19,21,23; Jer. 12:10; Joel 2:3) 

...of divine inspiration*** and approval, through endorsement by the false prophet's lying spirit, not by God's spirit! 

(Dan. 8:24; Rev. 13:14,15; 19:20) ("Disgusting Thing" -Mark 13:14; Matt. 24:15) 

(Rev. 2:2;  2Cor. 11:13-15;  2Tim. 3:5,13; Matt. 7:15;  1Tim. 4:1; Rev. 16:14,13,15; 19:20; Matt. 24:24,25; Rev. 13:15--***"breath" -John 20:22). 

(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/trample-how-does-it-happen.html)

(*** False prophet produces a counterfeit of "God's spirit - directed Organization")
(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/02/who-is-false-prophet-who-gives-breath.html)
[The authentic Temple of God's spirit, is His Chosen, anointed priesthood 

(1Cor. 3:16;  2Cor. 6:16;  1Pet. 2:10,9,5; Eph. 2:20-22)]

God sends / allows this abomination, to assault and discipline His wayward people (Heb. 12:6) (Isa. 42:24; Dan. 9:12; Joel 2:25 C; Joel 2:11; Mal. 3:2; Zech. 13:8-9; Rev. 9:18,20-21; Mark 8:35; Eze. 6:9-10; 14:22-23; Joel 3:17) (Zech. 13:9; Rev. 8:7; 9:18,2; Isa. 48:10; Job 23:10), because in the time of the end, 
God's people are tolerating, subjecting themselves to, and participating in idolizing, the collective "Image" of that very Army (Rev. 13:14-15,7-8; 2:20; Matt. 24:24-25; Luke 21:24; Rev. 14:12). 
That is why they are being trampled by it (Ec. 10:7; Prov. 25:26;  2Cor. 11:4,20; Matt. 5:13; Luke 21:24,22; Rev. 11:2; 13:10,7 Isa. 51:23;  2Cor. 11:20,4,3,2; Mal. 3:2-3; Zech. 13:9; Rev. 2:5; 3:3; 13:5-7; 2:20;  1Cor. 10:18;  1Tim. 1:20;  1Cor. 5:5; 11:32; Heb. 12:5-11; Rev. 3:19; Eze. 14:4-5).   

https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/trample-how-does-it-happen.html

More information: 

(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2022/03/like-dawn-spreading-over-mountains.html)

(For any questions that arise, please use contact form in the right column.)
LINK TO DIRECTORY OF ARTICLES
LINK TO MAIN HOME-PAGE
LINK TO FORUM
[https://translate.google.com/ (For making and reading comments in language other than English)]

"Your King Comes to You on a donkey and a foal."

"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, Humble, and mounted on a donkey, Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey." (Zech.9:9)

This scripture tells us, that a time arrives in which the virgins daughters of the Covenant "Jerusalem" (Gal.4:26) will rejoice in their triumph. They will obtain salvation through the arrival of their king. That arrival is upon a donkey and it's foal.
Was this scripture completely fulfilled in the first century?
No. It points to another arrival of Christ. How do we know?
I suggest a full reading of Zech.9, and a consideration of how it describes the final arrival of Christ. 
For now, I will quote some of the preceding and following verses...

"14 Then the LORD will appear over them (Luke 21:27; Heb.12:1;  1Thess.3:13); his arrow will flash like lightning (Ps.45:5; Matt.24:27). The Sovereign LORD will sound the trumpet (1Thess.4:16; Joel 2:1; Rev.8:6; 10:7; 11:15;  1Cor.14:8; Eze.33:3; Num.10:9; Rev.17:14; 19:11,14; 16:13,14; Matt.24:31; Isa.58:1; 27:13); he will march in the storms of the south (explained later)
16 The LORD their God will save his people on that day as a shepherd saves his flock (Phil.3:20; Zeph.3:19). They will sparkle in his land like jewels in a crown (Rev.12:1;  1Thess.2:19-20; Rev.1:20; 10:5-7).
8 But I will encamp at my temple (Rev.21:3) to guard it against marauding forces (Dan.12:1; Joel 2:2,4,1; 1:4; Rev.9:7,9,10). Never again will an oppressor overrun my people (Rev.13:7,10; 11:2; Mark.13:14) (Rev.20:9; 11:5), for now I am keeping watch." (Gen.28:15; Heb.4:16; 13:7; Rev.21:3; 22:3; Jer.29:10-11,12; Isa.40:9-10; Rev.22:12)
These things were not fulfilled in the first century.

Did you note, that this is a time for spiritual war (14)?
...a day of salvation and vindication? (16)
...a day of protection and release from oppression, that would last forever? (8)

Zech.9:9 describes the final arrival of Christ. 
The relevant details that verse contains then, are worthy of our understanding.
Why does verse 9 tell us that Christ's arrival, is...
"Humble, and mounted on a donkey, Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey."?
Some believe that Jesus arrives on only one donkey.
What is the truth?
Consider Matt.21:5...
"Say to Daughter Zion, 'See, your king comes to you, gentle and riding on a donkey, and on a colt, the foal of a donkey."
This is consistent with Matt.21:1-3...
"When they had approached Jerusalem and had come to Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 2 saying to them, "Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied there and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to Me. 3 "If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, 'The Lord has need of them,' and immediately he will send them."

Such details are important to us, because God considered them worthy of recording as a part of prophecy. They contain significant meaning for those present at the final arrival of Christ, which all these verses, describe.

Matt.21 
1 When they had approached Jerusalem and had come to Bethphage (Béthphagé: "house of unripe figs," -Matt.21:19; John 15:6), at the Mount of Olives (Zech.4:11-12,14; Eze.17:23; 36:8), then Jesus sent two disciples (John 8:17), 2 saying to them, “Go into the village opposite you (Isa.41:11;  2Tim.2:25; Phil.1:28), and immediately (Luke 12:36,40) you will find a donkey tied there [("while at ease") Dan.8:25;  1Thess.5:3; Gen.49:15; Isa.46:1-2; Rev.13:7;  2Cor.11:20; Rev.2:20)] (Matt.24:48-50; Num.22:28,30,32-33; Rev.2:14; Jude 1:11;  2Pet.2:15; Matt.23:2,4,12)
and a colt with her; untie them / "loose them", (Matt.16:19; Job 39:5-6; 24:5; 11:12; Ps.102:20; Isa.49:9-10) and bring them to Me (Matt.11:28-29,30; Ps.25:5). 3 If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord has need of them,’ (John 14:15; 21:15; Col.3:24; Gen.49:10-11; Isa.63:2-3; Rev.19:15) and immediately he will send them.” (Isa.49:25) 4 This took place to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet:
5 “Say to the daughter of Zion,
‘Behold your King is coming to you,
Gentle, and mounted on a donkey,
Even on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden.’”
6 The disciples went and did just as Jesus had instructed them, (John 1:51; Rev.22:3-4) 7 and brought the donkey and the colt, and laid their coats on them 
[your outer garment is your identity before others (Matt.24:17,18; 6:25; Luke 6:29; Matt.6:30; Rev.6:11) (Rev.12:1; -- Mal.4:2;  2Pet.1:19; Rev.22:16)] 
(Isa.61:10; Rev.19:8,14; Gal.3:27; Rev.12:1; Luke 1:78; Isa.60:1); and He sat on the coats (Ps.89:14; Col.3:14; Gen.49:10-11; Isa.63:2-3; Rev.19:15). 8 Most of the crowd spread their coats in the road (Mark1:1-3; Matt.6:25,28,30.33), and others were cutting branches from the trees (John 15:2; Matt.5:30) and spreading them in the road."

Jesus humbly arrives on two ignoble donkeys (1Cor.1:27-29; Rev.11:3,7-8,9-10), despised and treated as if wicked (Jer.22:19; Heb.13:13; John 16:2). They do not have an impressive visible army with them (Zech.4:6,14), but are moved to speak by the spirit and power of God (Num.22:28; Eze.3:27; 24:27; 29:21; Rev.22:16,6).

One is a mother (1Thess.2:7-8), who previously served as a beast of burden 
(Rom.6:16; Gal.4:3; Col.2:8;  2Cor.11:3,4,20; Rev.13:7,10; 11:2; Isa.51:23; Ps.66:11-12; John 8:32,36).
The other, her clinging foal, whom no master has ever dominated 
(Mark 11:2;  1Cor.7:23; Zech.8:23).
Although many expect the presence and inspection of Christ to be a majestic supernatural display;
the great majority even among God's chosen people,
will fail to recognize the "humble and lowly" means by which Christ truly arrives. 
(2Pet.3:4; Luke 19:41-42; Jer.13:17; Matt.13:15; Mark 4:12; Eze.12:2; Rev.3:3)

(I have been delayed in finishing the composition of "Michael"/"chief princes", and the post about the "man of lawlessness", due to intense activity with the demonstration campaign this Summer. I will return to writing as soon as possible. In the meantime, please make use of the search box to access information within the hundreds of article posts here,
and you are welcomed to visit the FORUM to read many good and recent posts. Thank you for your patience.)

(For any questions that arise, please use contact form in the right column.)
LINK TO DIRECTORY OF ARTICLES
LINK TO MAIN HOME-PAGE
LINK TO FORUM

https://translate.google.com/ 
(For making and reading comments in language 

other than English)

"Who are the 'Chief Princes'?"

Below is a question left in the comment section of the post, "Michael". I am adding that question and my reply below, to that post.

QUESTION:

"does the Bible shed light on how many Chief Princes are there and who they are as stated in Daniel 10:13 Michael, one of the chief princes"

MY REPLY:

Yes, the Bible sheds light on how many Chief Princes there are,
who these chief princes are, and who all the princes are, among whom there are chief princes.
Accordingly, I will answer your question in three parts.
1. Who are all the "princes"?
2. Who are the "chief princes" among all these princes?
3. Who is The "Great Prince" ("arch-angel") mentioned at Dan.12:1?
    (Jude 1:9; Dan.10:21; 8:25; Acts 3:15)
    (Jude 1:9; Job 1:8-9,10-11; Zech.3:1-2; Rev.12:10 --
                  "Moses" -Deut.18:15,18; Heb.3:5; Matt.16:28; 17:1-3,5;  2Pet.1:18; Rev.14:1)
-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

1. Who are the Bible's princes?

I will limit my reply to the princes of God's covenant woman, and not include the princes of Satan's covenant of death
(Eph.2:2; Isa.31:9; Eze.21:25; 22:27; 38:3; Dan.9:26; 10:20; Zeph.3:3; Rev.18:23; 9:7).

The princes under the Great "guardian" Prince/Rescuer, (Dan.12:1; Isa.49:24-25; Matt.12:29; Rev.20:1-2; Luke 10:19), who is Christ,
     (Isa.9:6; Dan.9:25; 12:1; John 17:12; 6:39; 10:28; Matt.28:20),
are the kings under the great king (Rev.19:16; 1:5; 3:21; 5:9,10; Eph.2:6; 1:22; Col.1:13).

They are also considered by God, Christ's sons, because by means of Christ, they receive spirit life (John 10:10; 20:22; 6:63; 5:21; 17:2; Rom.8:9,10,11,13;  1John 4:9,13; 5:11-12; 2:25; John 3:6,15,36; 6:47,48,51,57,63; 10:28; Heb.5:9). "But", you may protest, "don't we all become 'sons of God'?". Yes. But there is more to it.---

Within the Bible, forefathers are multiple. This tradition is a cultural difference from most modern day societies. 
Please let me explain...
Within the Bible, living faithful can have more than one father... both God and Christ (Isa.9:6).  Christ received his life from God first, before he can pass that incorruptible seed to those after him (1Pet.1:23; Luke 8:11; John 12:49; 6:63; James 1:21).
"Grandfather" is not in the Bible's language. This is why Abraham, David, Jacob, etc., are considered "fathers" of many subsequent generations. 
All the generations of their descendants, have all of these as "fathers"
(Zech.1:2,4-5,6; Acts 3:13; 7:19; John 8:39; Ex.3:6; Luke 1:32; Matt.1:1), regardless of how many generations may come and go in between.

Accordingly, we should not limit the spiritual lineage of those born of spirit, to either God or Christ as "father". Such ones are "sons" of both. Yet some are born of God's spirit directly (Rom.8:16; Heb.2:11), and others, through Christ and his bride (1Cor.15:45; Gal.4:26; Rev.22:17). 
You may have noticed that within the scriptures, our spiritual fathers are the ones whom we imitate (John 8:39,44; Eph.5:1;  1Pet.1:16; Matt.5:44,45,48).  We can therefore, also be sons of Christ (1Pet.2:21) and of the sealed faithful 

(1Cor.11:1; 4:15,14,16,17;  1John 2:13,14; Philemon 1:10; Luke 1:17; Phil.2:22; 3:17;  1Thess.2:11; 1:6) (Mal.4:5-6). 
(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/01/elijah-turns-hearts.html)

Hopefully, all these previous scriptures have helped to establish within your understanding, that whoever we imitate and do the will of, becomes our spiritual father (Eph.5:1; Matt.12:50; 7:21;  1John 2:17; Rom.8:14) -- (Eph.2:2; John 8:44). 
If you do grasp that imitating Christ (1Cor.11:1;  1Pet.2:21) can make us his son, it will then be easier to grasp who the "princes" are. 

First, lets look at Ps.45:16, which speaks of the dominion of Christ.

"In place of your fathers will be your sons;
You shall make them princes in all the earth."

In place of Christ's kingly forefathers (Luke 1:32; Isa.9:7; Matt.12:42), will come his spiritual sons (Heb.2:1-9,14,13,16; Isa.8:18; John 10:28,29; 6:37-39; 17:2;  1Pet.1:5; Matt.18:3; 19:14), with whom he shares his kingdom (Ps.132:12; 110:2; Rev.3:21; 14:1; Jer.17:25; Eze.37:25; 34:24) (Heb.2:5,16; Rom.4:13; Gal.3:29; Gen.28:13,14; 13:14,15).
They become co-kings (2Tim.2:12; Rev.5:9,10; 20:6) and co-princes (Isa.10:8; 9:6; Acts 3:15; 5:31; Isa.32:1,2).
As heirs of the earth, these will heal creation (Rom.8:19; Rev.22:1,2; 21:2-5; Jer.17:7,8; Matt.7:20; Eze.36:8), and also provide a "fatherly" example, that leads to life (1Cor.4:15-17; Phil.3:17; 4:9;  2Thess.3:9;  1Thess.1:6;  2Tim.3:14,15; Heb.13:7;  1Pet.5:3).
From the foregoing reply to the first question...
"Who are all the princes?";
I hope you now perceive, that all those redeemed from death by Christ (Rev.5:9,10;  1Cor.15:54-55; Acts 20:28) which "church" is the chosen saints of God's household (1Tim.3:15;  1Cor.14:33;  1Pet.2:10,9), are given fatherly life by Christ's blood...
       (through the new mother covenant of promise/sealed Bride
           -Gal.4:26,24; Matt.26:28; Rom.9:8; Rev.12:2; Gal.4:19; Eph.4:13;  1Thess.2:7;  3John 1:4) 
...These are his "sons", referred to as "princes" at Psalm 45:16.
As such, they become "heirs of the earth" 
(Rom.4:13; Gal.3:29; Heb.2:5,16; Matt.5:5; Psalm 37:11,22,29)
and are, 
"all the princes".

2. Who are the "chief princes" among all these princes?

Based upon the facts established above, we can re-word this question as, "Who are the "chief saints/sons of God" among all the saints/anointed chosen and holy ones?". Does such a position, exist? Please consider:
Luke 12:42; John 21:17
Although all members of the "one body" bride of Christ (Eph.5:31-32;  1Cor.6:17) are needed by all other members (1Cor.12:21,25; 4:7); each has their own assignment (1Cor.12:14,4-5,6-7,18,11,20; Eph.4:8,11-12). 
Some are given more responsibility (Luke 12:42; Mark 13:34; Matt.25:14-15; James 3:1;  1Cor.12:24,26; Luke 14:8,10-11), as "chief princes". How does the Bible describe the position held by those appointed as such?
One of the symbols used to describe the body of Christ, is as God's Temple (Rom.12:5;  1Cor.3:16;  1Pet.2:5,9-10; Col.1:13).
Jesus, is described as the cornerstone of that Temple (1Pet.2:6-7,8; Matt.7:24-25). If we build our faith upon the teachings of that cornerstone, we will not be put to shame but all we teach, will be proven true (Rom.10:11; 3:4; John 7:16-17,18). Can you perceive how the symbolic "chief" cornerstone of our faith (remember, "chief princes"?), is the first symbolic foundation to our worship in spirit and truth? 
If so, then we are starting to build the Temple of God, within your perception. If the "chief cornerstone" is the "great prince"/"chief prince" (Dan.12:1)... What about the other "chief princes" (Dan.10:13)? Does the Bible describe the rest of God's symbolic Temple, as having other foundation stones, upon which our faith needs to be chiefly built upon?
Please consider Eph.2:20-21,22; 3:5; Rev.21:14; 1:20; Dan.12:3-4; Phil.2:15;  2Cor.11:4; Gal.1:8-9; Luke 12:42;  1Pet.5:2; Heb.13:17;  1Cor.4:15)
1Cor.12:28 and Eph.2:20, clarify the arrangement of authority ("chiefs") within the congregation, appointed by God and Christ. The apostles are our foundation stones, along with Jesus the cornerstone, of the truth. 
---No one can remain in union with the cornerstone and head of the body, if they leave the teachings of the apostles, whom he appointed as fatherly heads to the 12 tribes of spiritual Israel (Matt.3:9; Gal.3:29,26; Rom.2:28-29; Rev.7:7; 21:11-12,14). 
---No one can remain in union with the unfolding direction of holy spirit, if they leave the declarations and warnings of the genuine and faithful prophets, whose foundation is the right hand of Jesus (Rev.1:20; 22:6; Amos 3:7;  2Pet.1:21;  1Cor.14:32-33; Rev.11:3-5; Jer.23:29; Zech.4:11-14,6; Hosea 6:5; Rev.22:6; Mal.3:1-2,3; Rev.11:3). Those "stars" provide the light of spirit to each of their assigned "lampstands" (Rev.1:20), which lampstands hold up, and work to make visible (Matt.5:14-15; Eph.2:19; Gal.6:10), the prophet/"star" whom they support (Heb.6:10).
We have learned that the symbolic foundation to the Temple of God's spirit (1Cor.3:16), is the truth of the apostles and the spirit of the prophets (Eph.2:20; 3:5). They are both necessary if a disciple is to lay a foundation of faith and worship, upon spirit and truth (John 4:24). The apostles and prophets who produce spiritual food sourced in the spirit and truth from Christ (John 15:4-5,8,16; Rev.22:1-2), are the "chief princes"/foundation stones. They are aligned with the cornerstone, and provide a basis upon which the living stones of the Temple of God, rest.

3. Who is The "Great Prince" ("arch-angel") mentioned at Dan.12:1?
Dan.12:1 reads; “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered."

[Before I go into Part 3: The Great Prince; I would like to offer additional information on other points made by Dan.12:1. 
First, the unprecedented "time of distress". Here is a link to start off the information about the Great Tribulation (Matt.24:21)
(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-greatest-tribulation-why.html)
Second, the Book of the Lamb, within which the names of the delivered, are written (Rev.13:8; 21:27; 3:5; 17:8; 20:15,12)
(https://pearl-newscrolls.blogspot.com)

(TO BE CONTINUED)

(For any questions that arise, please use contact form.)

LINK TO DIRECTORY OF ARTICLES
LINK TO MAIN HOME-PAGE
LINK TO FORUM

https://translate.google.com/ 
(For making and reading comments in language 

other than English)

Isaiah Ch.2, verses 1-5

The following is an update to: 
"The Rise of Mount Zion"
I have added explanatory scriptures, which I hope all will read.....
-  -  -  -  -  -  -
Isa.2:1-5:
This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:

2 In the last days (2Tim.3:1,5,7-8; Matt.24:3; Rev.1:10)

the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established

    as the highest of the mountains;

it will be exalted above the hills,

    and all nations will stream to it.

3 Many peoples will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord 
(Isa.56:7;  2Pet.1:18; Zech.8:2-3; Joel 3:17; Rev.14:1),

    to the temple (1Pet.2:5;  1Cor.3:16; Eph.2:20-21,22,10) of the God of Jacob (Isa.10:20-21).

He will teach us his ways (Matt.28:20; Mal.2:7),

    so that we may walk in his paths.” 
(Isa.30:21; 40:3; 11:16; Mal.3:1; 4:5-6; Matt.17:11,3,2; Mal.4:1-2,3; Rev.1:16)

The law will go out from Zion (Ps.110:2; Rev.14:1,3;  1Cor.14:15; 4:1; Rev.5:9,10; Mal.2:7; Isa.48:20),

    the word of the Lord from Jerusalem (1Cor.4:1;  2Cor.5:19; Rev.21:2,3; 3:12).

4 He will judge between the nations

    and will settle disputes for many peoples.
(Luke 12:51;  1Cor.11:18-19; 4:5; 13:10; Rev.1:1; John 16:13,8; Ps.94:21; Rev.6:9,11; 13:15,7)

They will beat their swords into plowshares

    and their spears into pruning hooks.

Nation will not take up sword against nation (Rev.17:14; 16:13-14,15-16; Matt.24:7,21; Joel 2:2,1; Rev.9:7,9,16;  2Cor.10:3-4,5; Dan.12:7; Rev.6:11; Rom.6:5),

    nor will they train for war anymore.

5 Come, descendants of Jacob (Acts 2:39; Deut.6:6-8;  1Cor.4:15),  let us walk in the light of the Lord.

(For any questions that arise, please use contact form.)
LINK TO DIRECTORY OF ARTICLES
LINK TO MAIN HOME-PAGE
LINK TO FORUM
https://translate.google.com/ 
(For making and reading comments in language 

other than English)

" Michael "

A QUESTION:
If it is true that ‘Michael’ is Jesus’ new name (the covenant new name) given after he conquered and his approval by God ; and if it is also true that it was kept secret until then, why is this name (Michael) revealed in identifying the angelic prince that came to the aid of the angel watching over Daniel (Daniel 10:13)?

MY REPLY:

What do you mean by, "the covenant new name"?

Do you have scriptures which direct that Christ's new name is given in association to an inaugeration of a covenant?

God's covenant with Christ for a kingdom (Luke22:29), has no direct bearing on the timing of his receiving the "new name", because he was a king, and Lord of the Sabbath Day ("Thousand Years"), as the man, Jesus Christ (Matt.21:4,5,10,11; 12:8; John18:37) (Deut.5:12; 2Pet.3:8; Matt.12:8; Rev.20:6; Heb.4:9). 

"Michael's" (meaning "Who is like God?") role is for warfare, and is against those who ask, "Who is like the Beast?" (Rev.13:4).

Jesus' "new name" is not about Christ's "conquering and receiving approval by God". 

He already did both, in the first century (John16:33; 1John5:4; Matt.3:17; 17:5; Isa.42:1).

Michael's name, is about his battling the authority of the Beast, which has replaced him as head of the anointed congregation (2Thess.2:4; Rev.13:7; Dan.8:11,25; 11:36) (Acts3:20,21; 2Thess.1:6-10; Dan.12:1). He must stand up against the demon inspired expressions which extol the Beast as worthy of worship (Rev.16:13-16; 13:15,8; 1Tim.4:1), when that Beast and it's image/idol, take a stand against the Prince of princes and "tramples" his fellow Kingdom heirs, God's Temple (Dan.8:11,24,25; 11:31,36; 2Thess.2:4; Rev.13:7,10; 11:2) (http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/05/salt.html). 

"Michael" must re-establish God's sovereignty and His Kingdom purpose... His Temple, and Holy City, as supreme. 

This he does, with his armies of heaven (Rev.17:14; 19:11,14,8; 12:17,11,7; Matt.25:31; Jude1:14) (Rev.2:26,27; 2Cor.10:3-5; Eph.2:6; Heb.12:22,23; Rev.19:14) (1Pet.5:8,9).
("God's 'Angels'")

When you say that Christ's new name is kept secret until then, it sounds as if you are assuming that this name is merely made audible to all, when revealed. 

But these things are not physical, but spiritual.

Unless Christ shows himself to us (John14:21; Rev.2:7,17,28), by giving us who he is (John14:6)...

         the hidden manna (John6:49,48,50)... 

         the morning star 

         (Rev.22:16; 2:28; 2Pet.1:19; 1John3:2; Rom.8:9)... 

         and the tree of life (Rev.2:7; John6:63) 

         [Our teaching words are our "fruit" (Luke6:43,45)]

we will not see or hear, even after others do understand (Rev.3:7,8; 4:1; Luke24:45).

Only those to whom Christ's new name is also given, come to know it (Rev.3:12; 2:17).

To have one's name "revealed" is to have it understood, not just physically heard.

The full meaning of Michael's name (and why it would become necessary), was NOT revealed in the time of Daniel.

All the things that Daniel was shown, were sealed up until the time of the end (Dan.12:4),

which is why the last book of the Bible, is called "Revelation". It's unveiling occurs when the spirit of truth arrives, to reveal the final sacred secrets of God, through God's prophetic messenger (John16:13; Rev.1:1; 22:6,16).

However, Michael IS mentioned in the book of Daniel. You cite, Dan.10:13.

If you simply look at the context, you will learn that Daniel was experiencing a prophetic vision...
Dan.10:

5 I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. 6 His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult. 7 Now I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, while the men who were with me did not see the vision; nevertheless, a great dread fell on them, and they ran away to hide themselves. 8 So I was left alone and saw this great vision; yet no strength was left in me, for my natural color turned to a deathly pallor, and I retained no strength. 9 But I heard the sound of his words; and as soon as I heard the sound of his words, I fell into a deep sleep on my face, with my face to the ground.

10 Then behold, a hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees. 11 He said to me, “O Daniel, man of high esteem, understand the words that I am about to tell you and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you.” And when he had spoken this word to me, I stood up trembling. 12 Then he said to me, “Do not be afraid, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart on understanding this and on humbling yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to give you an understanding of what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to the days yet future.”

We may assume that some of the vision and it's meaning is about the latter days, and some of the vision and it's meaning only occurred in Daniel's day. This is not so.

When are God's angels restrained from providing understanding about the time of the end?

When is Daniel (along with Abraham, Issac and Jacob) 

given understanding into the things all the prophets desired to understand? 

(1Pet.1:10; Matt.13:17; Heb.11:13; Luke13:28,29) (Dan.12:4,9; Rev.5:2,5; John15:15; Rev.1:1; 22:6,16)

Who is the angel sent by Christ to reveal these things to Daniel, and to us, 

at the Table in the kingdom of God, served at the great supper of the Lamb and his Bride?

Can you even consider that the angel in vision, speaking with Daniel, is the one sent to provide understanding of future events, and is the same angel of Rev.1:1 and Rev.22:6?

To illustrate how an ancient Bible character can see and speak of things in the present,

and yet those things are far in the future, please consider Ps.110:1

"Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

David speaks of God speaking to David's lord, who I assume you agree is referring to Christ (who was not yet born as a king). When did Jesus begin to sit at the right hand of God to share God's throne, and initiate the subjugating of his enemies?

"You have said so," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Matt.26:64) (Heb.12:1; Jude1:14)

"To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne." (Rev.3:21)

"The LORD will stretch forth Your strong (iron) scepter from Zion, saying, "Rule in the midst of Your enemies." (Ps.110:2) (Rev.2:26,27; 12:5; Eph.2:6)

"I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you." (Luke10:19)

"Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion (Ps.110:2; Rev.5:10), and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads." (Rev.14:1)

“You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.” (Rev.5:10)

Although David speaks of some thing he presently sees, it is for a future time.

When we are in vision and we hear and see things due to the education by God's spirit,

nothing should be taken literally. Such things are eventually understood when Jesus "opens that no one can shut". Literal timing has nothing to do with such lessons.

If you are open to learning more about the mounting scriptural evidence which connects "Michael" to the returned Christ; I believe you will discern a growning connection between them, until they eclipse.

Gen.3:15 makes clear who rightfully battles, at Rev.12:7. 

(Gal.3:16,29; Eph.6:12; Rom.16:20; 1John3:8; Heb.2:14)

---------------ADDITION---------------

(based upon a question left in the "comments" at the base of this post.)

QUESTION:

"does the Bible shed light on how many Chief Princes are there and who they are as stated in Daniel 10:13 Michael, one of the chief princes"

MY REPLY:

Yes, the Bible sheds light on how many Chief Princes there are,

who these chief princes are, and who all the princes are, among whom there are chief princes.

Accordingly, I will answer your question in three parts.

1. Who are all the "princes"?

2. Who are the "chief princes" among all these princes?

3. Who is The "Great Prince" ("arch-angel") mentioned at Dan.12:1?

    (Isa.9:6; Dan.9:25 Acts 5:31)

    (Jude1:9; Dan.10:21; 8:25; Acts 3:15)

    (Jude1:9 -- "Moses" -Deut.18:15,18; Heb.3:5; Matt.16:28; 17:1-3,5; 2Pet.1:18; Rev.14:1)
-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

1. Who are the Bible's princes?

I will limit my reply to the princes of God's covenant woman, and not include the princes of Satan's covenant of death

(Eph.2:2; Isa.31:9; Eze.21:25; 22:27; 38:3; Dan.9:26; 10:20; Zeph.3:3; Rev.18:23; 9:7).

The princes under the Great "guardian" Prince/Rescuer, (Dan.12:1; Isa.49:24-25; Matt.12:29; Rev.20:1-2; Luke10:19), who is Christ,
     (Isa.9:6; Dan.9:25; 12:1; John17:12; 6:39; 10:28; Matt.28:20),
are the kings under the great king (Rev.19:16; 1:5; 5:9,10; Eph.1:22; Col.1:13).

They are also considered by God, Christ's sons, because by means of Christ, they receive spirit life (John10:10; 20:22; 6:63; 5:21; 17:2; Rom.8:9,10,11,13; 1John4:9,13; 5:11-12; 2:25; John3:6,15,36; 6:47,48,51,57,63; 10:28; Heb.5:9). "But", you may protest, "don't we all become 'sons of God'?". Yes. But there is more to it.---

Within the Bible, forefathers are multiple. This tradition is a cultural difference from most modern day societies. 

Please let me explain...

Within the Bible, living faithful can have more than one father... both God and Christ (Isa.9:6).  Christ received his life from God first, before he can pass that incorruptible seed to those after him (1Pet.1:23; Luke8:11; John12:49; 6:63; James1:21).

"Grandfather" is not in the Bible's language. This is why Abraham, David, Jacob, etc., are considered "fathers" of many subsequent generations. 

All the generations of their descendants, have all of these as "fathers"

(Zech.1:2,4-6; Acts3:13; 7:19; John8:39; Ex.3:6; Luke1:32; Matt.1:1), regardless of how many generations may come and go in between.

Accordingly, we should not limit the spiritual lineage of those born of spirit, to either God or Christ as "father". Such ones are sons of both. You may have noticed that within the scriptures, our spiritual fathers are the ones whom we imitate (John8:39,44; Eph.5:1; 1Pet.1:16; Matt.5:44,45,48).  We can therefore, also be sons of Christ (1Pet.2:21) and of the sealed faithful (1Cor.11:1; 4:15,14,16,17; 1John2:13,14; Philemon 1:10; Luke1:17; Phil.2:22; 3:17; 1Thess.2:11; 1:6) (Mal.4:5-6).

Hopefully, all these previous scriptures have helped to establish within your understanding, that whoever we imitate and do the will of, becomes our spiritual father (Eph.5:1; Matt.12:50; 7:21; 1John2:17; Rom.8:14) -- (Eph.2:2; John8:44). 

If you do grasp that imitating Christ (1Cor.11:1; 1Pet.2:21) can make us his son, it will then be easier to grasp who the "princes" are. 

First, lets look at Ps.45:16, which speaks of the dominion of Christ.

"In place of your fathers will be your sons;

You shall make them princes in all the earth."

In place of Christ's kingly forefathers (Luke1:32; Isa.9:7; Matt.12:42), will come his spiritual sons (Heb.2:1-9,14,13,16; Isa.8:18; John10:28,29; 6:37-39; 17:2; 1Pet.1:5; Matt.18:3; 19:14), with whom he shares his kingdom (Ps.132:12; 110:2; Rev.14:1; Jer.17:25; Eze.37:25; 34:24) (Heb.2:5,16; Rom.4:13; Gal.3:29; Gen.28:13,14; 13:14,15).

They become co-kings (2Tim.2:12; Rev.5:9,10; 20:6) and co-princes (Isa.10:8; 9:6; Acts3:15; 5:31; Isa.32:1,2).

As heirs of the earth, these will heal creation (Rom.8:19; Rev.22:1,2; 21:2-5; Jer.17:7,8; Matt.7:20; Eze.36:8), and also provide a "fatherly" example, that leads to life (1Cor.4:15-17; Phil.3:17; 4:9; 2Thess.3:9; 1Thess.1:6; 2Tim.3:14,15; Heb.13:7; 1Pet.5:3).

From the foregoing reply to the first question...
"Who are all the princes?";

I hope you now perceive, that all those redeemed from death by Christ (Rev.5:9,10; 1Cor.15:54-55; Acts20:28) which "church" is the chosen saints of God's household (1Tim.3:15; 1Cor.14:33; 1Pet.2:10,9), are given fatherly life by Christ's blood...

       (through the new mother covenant of promise/sealed Bride

           -Gal.4:26,24; Matt.26:28; Rom.9:8; Rev.12:2; Gal.4:19; Eph.4:13; 1Thess.2:7; 3John1:4) 

...These are his "sons", referred to as "princes" at Psalm 45:16.

As such, they become "heirs of the earth" 

(Rom.4:13; Gal.3:29; Heb.2:5,16; Matt.5:5; Psalm.37:11,22,29)

and are, 

"all the princes".

(For any questions that arise, please use contact form.)
LINK TO DIRECTORY OF ARTICLES
LINK TO MAIN HOME-PAGE
LINK TO FORUM

https://translate.google.com/ 
(For making and reading comments in language 

other than English)

Who are "God's People"?

*SEE COMMENTS at the end of post.

A QUESTION:

"I want to ask you something with regards to the Bible students if I may.
Do not the Bible students come within the same or similar category as Jehovah's witnesses as Jw's beliefs were originally based of what Russell taught which as you know the Bible students still implement / endorse & practice these teachings to this day. When Rutherford took over the movement he changed much of the structure of what the witnesses originally believed in. 
So, would not the Bible students be classed as God's people, as well, along with Jehovah's witnesses?"

MY REPLY:

As a whole... neither "Bible Students" nor "Jehovah's Witnesses", are God's people.
How can I say such a thing?
Well, who is the only one who rightfully determines and designates the people of God? Is it not God Himself?

Remember who God Himself calls his people?

Hebrews 8:10 reads;

"But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."
These are those whom Jesus characterized, as those who worship according to spirit and truth [God's Laws in heart (by spirit) (Rom.5:5; 2:29; Col.2:11) and mind (by truth) (Rom.12:2; John 17:17)] (John 4:23-24).

Do you remember how this is symbolized, when a people have God's laws written on their hearts and minds?

Remember Deut.6:6,8?
"These laws that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads."

God told those who were His genuine people...

"Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads." (Deut.11:18)

Revelation is symbolic, because it reveals the spirit realm in physical symbolism, so that we who are physical, can perceive spiritual realities... IF we are granted that perception, by God's spirit
(Matt.13:10,11; 11:25,26,27; 19:11; Luke 8:10; Mark 4:11;  1Cor. 2:10,14,12-13; John 6:65; Col.2:2; John 14:21; Isa.29:11; Rev.5:1-2,9; John 15:15; Rev.1:1; 22:16,6; 11:3; John 8:17).

The scroll of Revelation clearly reveals two masters and their slaves..., 
who it is that have the laws of God, written in their minds and hearts;
and who it is that has the laws of the Beast written in their minds and hearts;

because these are depicted with this same symbol, 
on their forehead. (Rev.7:3)

That symbol would manifest, that God's servants have God's Laws written on their hearts, and that they were God's people, serving as His slaves.

Who are the people referred to, at Heb.8:10? (Deut.11:18)

"Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads."

"They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads." (Rev.22:4)

As you may conclude, God's marked people are His chosen servants/priests. This is confirmed at 1Pet. 2:9,10...

"But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy."

Can you see that God's people are those in covenant with him, who have had His laws written within their heart and mind, by God Himself?
Can you see that this is symbolized by bearing God's slave-owner's mark, on the hand (deeds) and forehead (mind)? These become obedient slaves of God's Truths, as expressed in His Word, the Bible (John 17:17).

Can you see that the work these slaves render, is to serve as priests, and to declare God's praises/ Truth? (1Pet. 2:9 above)

This is why God calls these, His "witnesses"...

“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,

    “and my servant whom I have chosen (1Pet. 2:9),

so that you may know and believe me

    and understand that I am he. (Heb.8:10)

Before me no god was formed,

    nor will there be one after me.

these people I formed for myself (Eph.2:10; 1:4; Heb.11:10; Isa.66:1;  1Cor. 3:16; 6:19; Eph.2:20-22; Titus 2:14;  2Tim. 2:21)

    that they may proclaim my praise."

(Isa.43:10,21)

(1Pet. 2:5,9)

Notice that God himself forms this people (Isa.43:21).

What people are those?

"For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works (John 15:8), which God prepared in advance for us to do. Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s holy people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets (Eph.3:4-5;  1Cor. 3:10; Rev.1:20), with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit." (Eph.2:10,19-22)

Can you see that the people which God himself forms, combine to form His spiritual Temple?

Again, 1Peter2 confirms that this is God's priesthood...

"you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual temple to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices (of praise), acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1Pet. 2:5)

Wrongly assumed to be God's people, both "Bible Students" and "Jehovah's Witnesses" are Satan's counterfeit temples/"mountains" (Rev.16:20; Zech.4:7; Rev.8:8), which temples, are made by men 
(Isa.66:1; Acts 17:24).
God's spirit does not dwell within such man-made religious organizations. 
(Acts 17:24; John 4:20-24). ("Organized Religion")

God's genuine Temple is spiritual... made by God Himself 
(Isa.43:21; Eph.2:10; Heb.11:10;  1Cor. 3:16; John 14:23,2,3; Eph.2:6), 
...in the "heavens" [(Rev.2:26,27) -Rev.12:5; Eph.2:6; Heb.12:22,23; 9:11; Phil.3:20; Rom.8:9].

Satan has devised these counterfeits
       (2Cor. 11:3-4,13-15; Rev.13:11,15; 16:13; Matt.24:4,5,24,25) 
       (pearl-666.blogspot.com), 
       (Rev.2:2; 3:9  "What is a 'Jew' / 'Gentile'?")
so that the genuine may be caught in those snares, and be overcome by a new master "father", and different covenant "mother" (1Pet. 5:8; Luke 22:31;  2Pet. 3:17; Rev.8:10).

Satan and his "bride/mother-covenant/abyss-womb" of deception and death, are physically represented and manifested, through his fallen stewards/wicked slaves/harlots (Rev.17:5) 
   (Prov.23:27; 22:14; 7:21,23,25-27; 5:3-5;     
    1Cor. 6:15; Rev.17:2) ("Who are Kings of Earth?"), 
and their counterfeit "temples"/"beasts".
("Is the Wicked Steward, Real?") 
(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/search?q=harlot+and+her+beast)

Those fallen unfaithful, former priests of God ("'Wheat' or 'Weeds'?") (Isa.1:21; 63:18;  2Pet. 3:17; Rev.8:10,11), are those whom Satan puts in charge of his prison/abyss (Rev.9:1) 
  [and it's Gentile spawn 
    (Rev.9:1-3,10; 17:8; 11:2; Isa.51:23; Ps.66:11,12;
        Ps.69:14,2,15; 88:6,17; Eze.26:19; Job 33:22 ) ("'Jew' / 'Gentle'")]..
These are the "seven heads"/kings, of Satan's organizational beast (Rev.17:9,10; 13:1,4), 
after these unfaithful, fail Satan's testing by accepting dominion, position, and power, in this world...

(Luke 4:5-7;  1John 2:15; Rev.9:1 -Rev.8:10). 
(https://pearl-leviathan.blogspot.com/)
...and use it to "beat" their fellow slaves (1John 3:12; 4:20; Luke 12:42,45; Rev.17:6) 
(Rev.13:11,15; 11:7; John 16:2).
These "seven mountains"/"heads"/"kings" (Rev.17:9), are the supporting foundation, upon which the mother-covenant of death (Rev.17:5; Isa.28:15), is able to "sit" (Zech.5:7-8,10-11; Rev.17:3,5).
(pearl-thewoman.blogspot.com)

This is the opposite of the "foundation" ["seven stars-angels" (prophets) and "12 Stones"(apostles)], 
upon which "Jerusalem" above (Gal.4:26), sits (Rev.3:12; 1:20; 22:6) (Rev.21:14) (Eph.2:20). 

The answer to your question, is the central reason why Revelation tells us, that such beasts are "covered with blasphemous names" (Rev.13:1; 17:3).

Do you understand that it is blasphemy, when the wicked steward wrongly claims to be God's faithful slave (Rev.2:2; Matt.7:15; Rev.13:11), or when those not spiritual Jews (Rom.2:28-29; Eze.44:7-9) falsely claim to be God's Temple 
(Rev.2:9; 3:9;  2Chron. 13:9; 23:6; Mark 13:14;  2Thess. 2:4; Dan.8:11; Rev.13:7; 11:2; Jer.7:4)...when in truth, they are an abomination of Satanic deception! 
("Disgusting Thing")
Such Gentile "elders", blaspheme against the genuine saints and priests of heaven (Heb.12:22,23; Eph.2:6; Phil.3:20; Rev.13:6)... "killing" all who refuse to worship and serve their collective "image", as God's "spirit-directed" organization (Rev.13:15).

That "abomination" is successful in destroying the life prospects of God's genuine people (Rev.13:7,8; Matt.24:4-5,24-25,22). That's why Jesus called it, "the abomination causing desolation", "as spoken about by Daniel the prophet" (Matt.24:15; Dan.11:31; 8:13) 
(Jer.12:10-12; Matt.10:34; Rev.2:16; 19:15,19; 16:13-16; 13:10; Isa.63:18; Jer.6:3; Luke 19:43,44; 21:20,24,22; Rev.11:2). 
This is, the "operation of error" / "deluding influence", of 2Thess. 2:11 
(2Thess. 2:4; Dan.8:11,12; Rev.13:1,4;  2Thess. 2:9-12).

So, the scriptures compel us to conclude that as a whole...
neither "Bible Students" nor "Jehovah's Witnesses" are God's genuine people, according to God and His Word.

Instead, the anointed priests now captive within those two counterfeit organizations, are God's people. 

They have been taken captive, by deceptive reasoning 
(Col.2:8; Rev.13:10;  2Cor. 11:2,3,4,13-15,20; Rev.2:20;  2Thess. 2:1,2;  1Tim. 4:1; Rev.13:11,15,8; 16:13-16; 17:14;  2Cor. 10:3-5; Eph.5:11) and trampled out of their rightful position 
(1Cor. 6:2; 4:1; 3:16-17; Rev.5:9,10; Ecc.10:7). 

As a consequence to their subjection to this abomination (2Cor. 11:3,20; Rev.2:20; Matt.5:13), they have left their "mother" covenant of life and peace with God 
(and having His laws of truth in their hearts and minds) (Gal.4:24,26;  2Cor. 3:6; Heb.8:10),

to come under a different "mother" covenant... 
...the "covenant of death" (Isa.28:15; Rev.17:5) 
(Dan.11:30-31; Isa.24:5;  1Tim. 4:1; Rev.16:13-16).
They then have demonic propaganda written on their hearts and minds ("Mark of Beast")
(Rev.13:16,17; Matt.25:9,10;  2Cor. 11:2;  1Tim. 4:1;  2Tim. 4:3). ("'Buying' and 'Selling'")
The name of that "mother" covenant of Death, is "Babylon the Great" (Rev.17:5).
Both "cities"/covenants, have inhabitants (Rev.17:1,5,15,18)
(Ps.46:4; Rev.22:1,2,14; 21:2,10; 11:2; Isa.52:1; 62:12; Dan.9:24) 
(Heb.11:10; 12:22-23; Rev.3:12; Phil.3:20) ("The Holy City")

This change of "mother" covenants has occurred, because these ones have accepted the laws and doctrines of demons, in their hearts and minds 
(Hosea 2:2-4; Rev.2:23,21-22; 18:8; Amos 8:11) (1Tim. 4:1;  2Chron. 18:20-22; Rev.16:13-16; 13:14-15,8,7; Deut.13:1-3). 

This is why the symbolic mark on their forehead, is that of the harlot's "Beast" (2Pet. 2:12; Jude 1:10; Rev.13:17,16) rather than of God (Rev.14:1; Deut.6:6,8).

This is why God's messenger cries out;

"‘Come out of her, my people,’ (1Pet. 2:9,10)
    so that you will not share in her sins,

    so that you will not receive any of her plagues'" (Rev.18:4)

Those people of God who have been deceived by Satan in his "short period of time"...
          (after his release from the abyss - Rev.20:7,8; 17:14; 16:13-16),

...must get out from under the covenant of death (Isa.28:15), get out of their relationship with "her" Harlot daughters (1Cor. 6:15; Rev.2:22; 17:2; 18:9), her army of "locust - scorpions" (Rev.9:7,10,8; Joel 1:6,4; Eze.2:6; Luke 10:19), and their deadly, demonic, wormwood lies (Rev.8:10,11) which lead to death (Rev.9:10;  1Cor. 15:55-56).
(tails-stingers-scorpions)

All must return to living waters of truth, through Christ's "virgin" Bride
(Matt.25:10; 22:8-10; Rev.19:9; 21:6; 22:17; John 7:38).

All these truths are basic to understanding the times in which we live, how they are effecting the genuine people of God,

and why Jesus called it, a "Great Tribulation" 
[Amos 9:9; Luke 22:31; Isa.30:28 (Rev.12:15; 14:20)]
 [Eze.5:12; Zech.13:9; Jer.46:28; Mal.3:1-3; Rev.7:14; 2:22,20; Neh.9:37,27; Matt.24:21 -(Joel 2:2; Rev.9:2-3,7,9-11); Matt.24:22; Dan.12:1,3]. 
(the-greatest-tribulation/what&why)

Does this mean that only the 144000 can belong to those who worship God in spirit and truth? No. A temple is constructed, so that those who are not the temple, can come there to learn and worship God (Isa.56:7; Mal.2:7; John 21:17; Isa.32:2). Priests serve the people, by providing the truth that God has put inside them, to yet others (Mal.2:7;  1Cor. 4:1;  2Cor. 5:20; John 13:20; Matt.10:40-41,20; Luke 10:16) 
(Rev.21:6; 22:1,2,17; John 7:38; Isa.43:19; 41:18; Rev.12:14,6; 11:3)
(Rev.22:2; Eze.36:8; Matt.24:16; 7:20).
("Who are the 'Fine Trees'?")

Just as the ancient physical nation of Israel had in their company, proselytes who also desired to worship God in spirit and truth, these priests can have in their company, those who will also gain life, by their association with God's Temple (Zech.8:23; Rom.2:28,29; Isa.14:1; Matt.10:41-42; 25:40,46). (Non-anointed benefits)
Such ones are symbolized, by the "colt" (Matt.21:2), who is with it's "mother" (Gal.4:26;  1Thess. 2:7;  1Pet. 2:2) 

(pregnant-woman-and-nursing-mothers). 
(Your king comes to you on donkey and colt") (Rev.2:14;  2Pet. 2:15-16; Jude 1:11)
Even such as these lowly "donkeys", can carry the manifestation of Christ's arrival (Matt.22:8-10; Rev.22:17).

(For any questions that arise, please use contact form.)
More information on this subject: 
(who-become-gods-people).

LINK TO DIRECTORY OF ARTICLES
LINK TO MAIN HOME-PAGE
LINK TO FORUM

https://translate.google.com/ 
(For making and reading comments in language other than English)