Is it Proper to Pray to Jesus? [] The Source of Spirit and Truth

Comment received:

At Matt.6:9 Jesus taught us how to pray to the Father. In that instruction, Jesus excluded himself from being directly addressed in the opening of prayer. 

My response:

Would Jesus pray to himself in his model prayer?

Jesus was giving us instruction on what perspective we should have, what our concerns and priorities should be, when we are considering which requests we rightly present before the Father. 

Should we assume that this instruction must mean that Jesus is not to be prayed to?

Let me present an example.

Imagine that your lawyer gives you instruction on how to present your case to a judge or jury.

Does that necessarily mean that you should no longer speak to your lawyer, simply because his instruction did not include how to speak to him?

You would not assume that conclusion, because you have an ongoing relationship with your lawyer. You know that your relationship remains unaffected by his instruction regarding a third party.

Please consider, based upon the scriptures to follow, what the relationship of one-ness is, that the anointed have with Jesus (John 17:20-22,23-24,25).

Jesus said that proper worship includes both spirit and truth (John4:23-24). 

Jesus is the source of truth for the anointed (John14:6; 18:37; 8:45-47; 4:10; Rev.21:6; 3:20). 

He is also the source of spirit at work in them 

(John16:12-15,7; 15:26; Matt.10:27; 28:20; John17:26; 20:29; 17:20; Acts 1:8) 

(Col.2:10-11; 1John2:27; 1Pet.1:2) 

(Rom.11:16-18; 15:12; Col.2:6-7; John15:4-5; Eph.4:16; 1Cor.6:17).

Jesus directly teaches his anointed priests, about their mutual Father 

(John5:19; 10:36; Gal.3:26). (John17:26; Heb.2:10-13; Matt.10:27)

Consider how the relationship between Jesus and his bride members, is compared to a healthy, loving marriage (Eph.5:29-30,31-32).

Is such a relationship sustainable, without communication? 

The anointed continue to be taught by Jesus himself, as he is the one who directly gives them God's spirit and truth, through him.

Jesus told his body members, to ask him for what they need (John15:7; 16:24-25).
Note John 14:13-14...

    "13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask ME for anything in my name, and I will do it."

Then please reconsider, whether or not Christ's bride members should speak to Jesus, or should not speak to him. 

    1Tim.2:5 reads;

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind*, the man Christ Jesus".

    If we wish to approach God, we are told that Jesus is our mediator. How well would you reach God, if you refused to speak with His only mediator?

Yet Jesus spoke of a time when the anointed who are born of spirit, would no longer be of the flesh... of "mankind*" 

(Rom.8:9-11; John3:6; 1Pet.1:23; 1Cor.15:50; Eph.2:6). 

In that day, the Father Himself hears our prayers (John16:25-27).

The faithfulness of Stephen is one of loyalty to Christ. He gave a courageous and thorough testimony in the face of certain death (Acts 7:1-54). This exemplary Christian provides to us, a lesson related to our present topic 

at Acts 7:55-60 where we read;

    "55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 ‘Look,’ he said, ‘I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.’

57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.

59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, ‘Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.’ 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, ‘Lord, do not hold this sin against them.’ When he had said this, he fell asleep."

Finally, we have the example of the apostle Paul. We can see by the verses to follow, that he took the invitation at John16:24 to heart. 

Rom.8:28 and 1John5:14 add, that what we ask for must contribute to the purpose of God. Take note of what we learn from Paul, regarding whether or not we should pray to Jesus...

    2Cor.12: "7 or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for MY power is made perfect in weakness.’ Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me."

 1Cor.6:17

    Jesus is one in spirit with his Bride members. They work together intimately, as Christ teaches them, nourishing them with spirit and truth (Eph.5:29). He gives them the divine knowledge they need to be wise and faithful, and to feed others the light of life 

(John20:21; Matt.10:27; 5:14-16; Isa.60:1-2; 1Pet.2:9; Rev.22:17; Matt.28:19-20). 

If anyone thinks that this takes place without any open communication between Christ and his Bride members, you are mistaken.

Acts 9:3-5; Rev.1:12-13,17; 2:29; 6:10; John5:22-23; Rev.11:12; John17:24; Rev.14:14-16; Matt.3:12; Rev.19:5; 22:16,20)

More Information: 

(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2020/03/addition-to-how-to-pray-as-follows.html)

----(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2019/10/how-to-pray.html)

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144,000 -literal? [] Why so Long? [] 24 Elders

QUESTION RECEIVED:

I have a question regarding the 144k. The 2000 odd years since Jesus's death has been a fairly long time and evidentially Jws are scrambling to justify increases to the number of partakers and the fact that (by their statistics) the number should have been made up long ago.

I dont believe we can trust their numbers to give us any indication of the amount of people who have actually been annointed. I think it's probably only a matter of time until the GB announces that the annointed number is symbolic and not a literal 144k as they've been teaching for decades.

I wanted to get some insight on this topic as its hard to grasp sometimes what has literal or symbolic application when it comes to revelations. Rev 7:5-8 says that the sealed make up a portion of the 12 tribes. I'm confused about the tribes' meaning and whether or not the numbers are exact and physical...? Either way, why is it necessary for the number (whether symbolic or not) to be made up? There have already been thousands of sealed, and as you have said, the harvest is nearly done. I'm just not sure why humanity has had to wait/endure/suffer in existence for so long when God already has so many Chosen from the first century. Once again, thank you for your insight

Also who are the 24 elders in white robes or what do they represent?

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MY REPLY:

I hope you are reading all the cited scriptures as you come to them. That is where holy spirit will open the understanding of these things up to you.

The book of Revelation is symbolic. If you look at the Greek for Rev.1:1, it contains a word that is rarely brought over into English when translated. I'll give you a link to the Greek so you can find it yourself.

https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev1.pdf

Here is the word:

eshmanen

esEmanen

G4591

vi Aor Act 3 Sg

He-SIGNifiES

he-signifies-it

-- If you look at the capital letters (I did not change anything), you will see " SIGN ifiES ".

That's because the book is given to us in SIGNs. The seals are in place to prevent an open understanding of those signs. Understanding is exclusively for Christ's faithful servants

(Matt.13:34-35,11-13; Rev.22:16,6; 1:1). 

The seals are finally opened, in the time of the end (Rev.20:12; 22:10; Dan.12:4,9-10).

The symbols (and what is about to happen as depicted in them) can then be understood in the time of the end, 

through spirit (John16:12-13; Rev.22:6).

The seals are opened and deciphered, through the trumpets of the 7 angels (Rev.15:7; 8:2; 10:7; Isa.58:1NIV ).

144000 is a symbolic number. It is based upon the numeral 12, which represents truth because it is the sum of two witnesses (6+6=12). 144000 is the result of 12x12x1000. That's why there are 12 tribes, and 12,000 in each tribe. Those tribes are not headed by the sons of Jacob, but by the 12 apostles (Matt.19:28). The tribes are comprised of symbolic Jews (Rom.2:28-29; Gal.3:29; Rom.9:6).

  ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/07/who-are-144000.html )

    ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/06/144000-sackcloth.html )

The thousand,

     (as we observe in the numeral 1,000 that symbolizes Christ's reign over the 144000) 

...represents a receiving of a kingdom due to faithfulness.

  To briefly explain this, we see the faithful anointed as having traversed the path of Christ to the end, as Paul said, to finish the race (Matt.16:24-26; John14:6; 2Tim.4:7-8).

Rev.17:14 displays that progression as "called, chosen, faithful". 

First we are called/drawn by the Father to Christ (John6:44; 17:6; 1Cor.1:26). 

Second (if that is successful) we are chosen 

(1Cor.1:27-29; 1Pet.2:9; 1:2; Mark 13:20; Luke18:7; John15:19; Acts 9:15; 10:41; Rom.8:33; Eph.1:11; Col.3:12; 1Thess.1:4; James 2:5; Isa.43:10). 

After being chosen, we face the fork in the road of being faithful or unfaithful to God's choosing of us 

(1Cor.4:2; Heb.10:38; Matt.24:45; 25:21; Eph.1:1; 1Tim.2:7; Col.1:2; 1Pet.4:10; 3John1:3; Rev.2:10; 14:12; 17:14).

You can see "called" as 10. "Chosen" as 100. "Faithful" and as receiving your kingdom with Christ, as 1000. It is the same with first, second/mid-heaven, and third heaven 

  (Rev.14:6ASV ; Rev.8:13ASV ; 2Cor.12:2; Neh.9:6; Luke2:14NIV ).

The 144000 have attained their kingdom of truth with Christ, by being victorious over the world (Rev.3:21; Eph.2:6).

666 represents 3 liars... the Devil, the false prophet, and the sea beast.

Those who worship the beast's image, are under compulsion to serve and obey it. This is symbolized by having their thoughts, faith, and actions, directed by that Beast (Rev.16:13-14; 1Tim.4:1; Rev.13:16-18)

Two witnesses (12) represent truth.

(John8:17; Rev.11:3,12; Matt.17:3,5; Heb.12:1; Rev.1:7; Jude 1:14).

God's slaves are not the beasts slaves. 

Instead of being marked by the false teachings of demons and of the Beast, they are marked as slaves of God, and marked by the truthful teachings of God which they serve and obey (Deut.11:18; Rev.14:1; 7:3)

-

You said; "Rev 7:5-8 says that the sealed make up a portion of the 12 tribes."

I don't understand what you are saying. I see those verses as showing that all members of the 144000 are sealed. Can you clarify?

-

Your question about suffering and why God has waiting so long, I'll give you a link for.

  ( https://pearl-waiting.blogspot.com )

As regards your thought about God being satisfied with a past number of sealed anointed...

remember that God considers the anointed, His sons (Gal.3:26; 4:6).

If Jesus describes his love as a shepherd who leaves his 99 sheep to find one of his lambs, why would he abandon the harvest of the full number of anointed faithful? (Matt.18:12)

To illustrate; 

If you had 12 sons who fell into a well, would you be satisfied after rescuing a few, abandoning the rest?

Well you may think that the other 9 do not yet exist, so you're not really abandoning them. 

  In God's mind of seeing the end from the beginning (Isa.46:9-10), all those who love Him and died, are living to him (Luke 20:38) as are all those whom He knows will love him, and have not yet been born (Ps.139:15-16; Eph.2:10; 2Thess.2:13-14; 1Cor.2:7) but who are written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation (Rev.13:8). 

Jesus was not yet born when all the prophecies were written about him. 

Like Jesus, God has a purpose for each anointed one, whether they presently exist, have already died, or have not yet been born. We are not His counselor in such matters (Rom.11:34-36; Isa.40:13).

Now, as regards the 24 elders...

As previously mentioned, 6 represents a testimony. 12 represents 2 witnesses, a testimony of truth. In this case, we have 4 witnesses or testimonies (6x4=24).  

The 24 elders represent a unified, harmonious testimony given by this group throughout the 4 corners of the earth (N.S.E.W.). They are the teachers in the Body of Christ (1Cor.12:28; Eph.4:11; Matt.23:34; Acts 13:1; James 3:1).

 Rev.4:10-11

In fact, all those surrounding the thrones of God and Christ in heaven, are members of the body of Christ... members of Christ's bride and God's kingdom administration.

As we learn in 1Cor.12; Eph.2 and Eph.4, etc., there are many differing assignments in that Body... apostle, prophet, teacher, evangelists, healers, etc. There are also the watchmen, which are symbolized as the 4 living creatures (Mark 13:34NIV Mark13:35; John10:3 > LINK ).

The 24 elders are dressed in white robes, which is defined at Rev.19:8. 

The means of attaining that robe, is defined at Rev.6:9-11; 7:13-14.

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Light and Darkness

Question received: 

John 9:4 has been on my mind lately.

Do you think Jesus was referring to more than himself as the "Light" going away and the darkness being more than the absence of His presence?

Spiritual darkness?

My Reply:

We read at John 8:12 that Jesus referred to himself as the light of the world.

At Matt.5:14 Jesus said of his followers, "You are the light of the world."

At John 20:21 Jesus said; "As the Father sent me, so I am sending you". 

Verse 22 continues, "Then he breathed on them and said, 'Receive the holy spirit'." (John 20:22)

At John3:34 Jesus said about himself; 

  "For he whom God has sent, speaks the words of God; for God gives the Spirit without measure."

There we see the connection between having God's spirit, and accurately teaching God's words.

At Matt.10:20, Jesus again said of his disciples; 

"It will not be you speaking, but the spirit of your Father speaking through you."

  So we see a commonality between the role of Christ and the role of his faithful body members.

Christ and the anointed are sent to bring spiritual light into the world (Mal.2:7; Rev.5:10). 

Both Jesus and his Body members are enabled and prompted by the spirit of God, to teach God's words of divine truth.

Now note what is said about the Day of the Lord...

"Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light" (Amos 5:18 NIV)

  Please read: 

John9:4; Jer.13:16; Zeph.1:15; Matt.24:29; Joel 2:2,31; Rev.9:2; 2:26,28; Isa.60:1-3; Mal.4:2-4

Jesus foretold above at Matt.24:29 that "the power of the heavens would be shaken". 

That is a parallel to Dan.12:7 where we are told that "the power of the holy ones will be brought to nothing". 

If you don't know about the heavens, consisting of Christ (sun), ...moon (sealed anointed) ...and stars (individual anointed), as being the symbolic heavens; Please consider this post:

( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/sun-moon-and-stars.html )

  As regards the heavens being shaken", please derive what that is describing, from these verses:

(Ps.16:8; 21:7; 60:2; 109:23; Isa.54:10; Amos 9:9; Job 34:20)

Why would God, "shake the heavens"?

He tells us at Haggai 2...

  "6 “This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘In a little while I will once more shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land. 7 I will shake all nations, *and what is desired by all nations will come, and I will fill this house with glory,’ says the Lord Almighty." *(Zech.4:10; Mal.3:1-2,3-4).

  God is shaking loose, all that which is spiritually desirable from the midst of the heavens, earth, sea, and parched realms (Ps.82:5; 105:28). That advances God's purpose, to harvest those who are inclined toward divine truth and life before the End of the age 

(Matt.13:30,38-40; Mark 4:26-27,28-29; Rev.14:14-16; Matt.13:47-50,30; 2Pet.3:7,10). Fire is symbolic Jer.23:29; Jer.5:14NIV ; Rev.11:5) (LINK: Fire-from-Heaven).

Since the time of Jesus, those inclined toward everlasting life have been being gathered in (John 4:35-36). But the time arrives to reap the final, late crop (Amos 7:1-2,8; Isa.65:8; Eze.14:22).

  When the heavens are shaken and the sun, moon, and stars cannot give their light (Isa.13:9-10; Eze.32:8; Matt.24:29). This is caused by the army of locusts who darken the heavens (Joel 2:2-3,10,12,25,31-32; Rev.9:2-3). They are sourced in the enemy of divine light and life... the father of deception and death (John 8:44; Rev.13:4; 9:11; Isa.33:1). 

  ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/11/who-is-destroyer.html )

The anointed priesthood is assigned to wage spiritual war against the Devil's dark forces... once their daystar arrives to deliver them from the dark.

(2Pet.1:19; Mal.4:2; Acts 3:20; Hosea 6:3; Isa.60:1; Hosea 2:23; Rev.22:16; John14:21)

(Eph.6:12; 2:1-2; 2Cor.4:3-4,5-6; Eph.4:18; 5:8-10,11-12,13-14; 2Cor.10:3-5; Rev.17:14)

(Ps.18:28; 107:14; 112:4; Isa.9:2; 1Pet.2:9; Col.1:13,21; 1Thess.5:4-6; John 1:5).

  ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2017/04/what-is-sheole-hades.html )

If you have not yet read about the cause of the Great Tribulation; if you read the following post link, you will understand how this locust-scorpion army causes the Great Tribulation.

  ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-greatest-tribulation-why.html )

The battle of Armageddon, is that battle between truth and deception, after Christ's anointed are set free from being trampled by the Gentiles, and they repent of their ignorant captivity to demonic deception (Isa.30:26; 5:30; 59:9; Matt.24:24-25; 5:13; Luke 21:20; Ps.143:3; Rev.13:7,10; Col.2:8; Luke 21:24; Dan.11:33; Eph.4:18-19; Col.1:21) (1Tim.4:1; Rev.16:13-14) (Col.1:13-14; 1Pet.2:9)

  ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/trample-how-does-it-happen.html )

    ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/02/abomination-causing-desolation.html )

      ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/01/armageddon.html )

All heavenly light is cloaked during the Great Tribulation, it is the "night when no one can work" (John 9:4). 

That could not have been in the first century, because at that time Jesus said "“My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” (John5:17).

It's very important to learn and understand from scripture, about the cause and effect of the Great Tribulation upon those who God considers his people (1Pet.2:9-10). If you haven't read that yet, please do (especially the scriptures)> (https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-greatest-tribulation-why.html)

  (Who-are-God's-People? -1) (Who-are-God's-People -2)

My point, is that the Great Tribulation is a time of darkness to the point of being totally blind. That tribulation causes the body members to be cut off from Christ (Dan.8:11,13; 9:26; 11:22; John15:5). They have no light, without him.

Without him, they can do nothing (John 15:4-5; 9:4).

-  -  -  -  -  -  -

If you'd like more information about spiritual light and spiritual darkness, here are more posts.

( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2022/03/like-dawn-spreading-over-mountains.html

  ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/03/two-mothers.html )

    ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/07/how-does-light-get-brighter_90.html )

      ( https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-night.html )

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Jonah's Fish

Still editing 

Matt.12: "40 For as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish [sea creature/monster] three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights."

First let's visit the Greek interlinear for this verse, to get the original Greek words that were written.

Here is a link to it, but I will copy below a picture of verse 40...

  ( https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat12.pdf )

We're going to focus in on the word for "sea creature" 

 G2785

In order to get the definition of this Greek word, we take note of its designation as "G2785". That's this word's index number in Strong's dictionary.
Now we'll look it up. First do a Google search for " Strong's G2785 ".

There will be a result for Blue Letter Bible. Click on that, and it will take you to the definition of G2785. Here is the link: ( https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2785/kjv/tr/0-1/ )

Here is a screen shot. 

Now please take note that aside from the conclusion drawn by translators that this creature which swallowed Jonah when he was thrown into the sea, is literally a large aquatic animal;

Note near the top it is given the root of this word for the sea creature's identity.

 G5490

Now we are going to look up what this Greek word means. This definition is much more reliable, because our original word (G2785) only occurs two places in the Bible, and both places are the same context, giving us little help in understanding a clear definition. (Jonah 1:17; Matt.12:40).

Here is the page that defines G5490: ( https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g5490/kjv/tr/0-1/ )

Please take note that a precise animal is not mentioned, but rather the idea of a great opening, gape, chasm, gulf... a great and deep divide. It may not make sense for now, to equate a creature with a gaping deep hole, but as we continue, this will make perfect sense.

Here is the other place in the Bible where this chasm is directly referred to. Luke 16:24-26.

Take note that there is a great chasm between Abraham and Lazarus on one side, and the one in agony on the other side. He longs for water, but a chasm prevents him receiving it. His life was filled with comfort, while the life of Lazarus was filled with misery. In the scene above, the circumstances are reversed in a display of justice. The chasm assures the final outcome of justice cannot be changed. Once this sentence is executed, it cannot be reversed.

We know that "water" is a Bible symbol for divine truth (John4:10; Rev.22:1; John17:3; 6:63; 14:6).

What does the Bible teach us about the allegorical situation depicted by Luke16:24-26 above?

How are some who have suffered, being granted living water, 

and others, denied that water? How is there a chasm in between the two sorts?

Matt.13:11; Matt.25:8NIV Matt.25:9NIV 1Cor.10:21; Gal.1:8; Rev.3:7NIV

15 Let not the floodwater overflow me,

Nor let the deep swallow me up;

And let not the pit shut its mouth on me." Ps.69:15NKJV

Isa.5:14; Prov.30:13-14,15-16; Hab.2:5NIV ; (Hab.ch.2); Rev.6:7-8

1Pet.5:8

https://pearl-leviathan.blogspot.com

Ps.55:15; Num.16:30-31,32-33; Hab.1:5; Rev.19:20NIV Isa.43:19NIV Jer.31:21-23,24-25

https://dictionary.com/browse/compass

Luke21:20NIV ; Luke19:43NIV

https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa5.pdf (verse 12)

https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/jer31.pdf (verse 22)

Psalm 5:12; 3:3

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Bible meanings of surround/compass are two.

Man of Lawlessness/Gentiles seek to destroy "woman" Jerusalem. Surrounds Jerusalem, desolates (Matt.24:15). Christ loses temple (Dan.8:11; 9:26). Woman surrounds, desolates Man of Lawlessness. Woman defends master, master defends/blesses woman.