After a discussion surrounding the nature of current persecution within the WT organization against the Chosen Elect of God; and how that persecution is the means through which the anointed receive their seal, I was asked the following questions:
1: “If the anointed need to be disfellowshipped (killed -John16:2) in order to be sealed, then they would need to have been a part of false religion. What about before watch tower was organized? Who did the anointed have to belong to then? ””
PREFACE:
Previous to the Chosen becoming mature/(sealed) into the full-grown stature of Christ (Eph.4:13-14; 1Cor.2:6,16; 13:11; 14:20; Phil.3:10), they are under the care of ("belong to") a steward/household manager (1Cor.4:1,15-16; Gal.4:1-2,19; Col.1:25; Luke 12:42).
With spiritual growth (Heb.5:14; Col.1:28; Heb.12:23; 2Pet.1:4), comes the need for each individual to take a stand and die for the Truth
(Mark 4:28-29; John12:24; 1Cor.15:36; Mark 13:13; 8:35; Matt.25:6; Heb.13:13; Rom.6:5; Rev.6:9-11).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/10/coming-to-life.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/01/symbolic-death-by-means-of-world.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/05/he-who-seeks-to-save-his-life-will-lose.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/04/wheat-and-weed-seeds-grow-up-and-mature.html
That death is often sourced, with a wicked steward (Luke12:45-46; 16:1-2).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-stewards-sacred-trust.html
https://pearl-wastefulsteward.blogspot.com/
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/trample-how-does-it-happen.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/01/by-this-love-among-yourselves-all-will.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/10/why-does-master-delay-luke1235-stay.html
We today, can come to recognize how that "death" is presently occurring. (see 8 links above)
The question now being asked, essentially is;
'How could the anointed who existed previous to the "Watchtower", become sealed by a death for truth?'
NOTE: There is a pattern for those who finish the course of Christ (Phil.3:10-12,16-17; 1Pet.2:21; Matt.16:24-25; Rom.6:5-6,7-8) and become sealed.
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/search?q=becoming+sealed
The same destination of being sealed, has a path that varies between those who are sealed during the "Thousand Year" kingdom of Christ, and those sealed during the Great Tribulation (which occurs after the "Thousand Years").
This directly pertains to the question at hand, because the "thousand years" are before the emergence of the "Watchtower", and the Great Tribulation occurs when the "Watchtower" exists.
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-day-and-night-of-thousand-years-two.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-thousand-years-image-of-beast.html
(for more information about when the "thousand years" take place, please use the search box)
Those sealed during the "thousand years" and before Satan's release from the abyss (Rev.20:7) (and his subsequent installation of the False Prophet and it's Beast) (Rev.16:13-16; 20:7-8; 13:1,4,11,14-15; 19:20)...
...were never conquered by those agents of Satan (Rev.20:4).
Those who had been taken captive and conquered (Col.2:8; Rev.13:10,7) after Satan's release (and during the Great Tribulation), must repent, be washed clean, and ride forth with Christ in the battle against those agents of demonic deception (Rev.15:2; 2:26-27; 17:14; 2Cor.10:3-5; Eph.6:12).
------------------
My reply:
Your two questions are at the apex of much information, which could have subsets of questions, beneath them. To be thorough, I will break those questions down, in my attempt to make a fuller reply, clear and comprehensible.
In order to accept some of the assertions to follow; background information will need to be researched and studied before it is accepted.
In order to stick to the questions at hand, I will not include all that information here and now, but will insert links for those who deem the assertions, unproven by scripture. Please use the linked references, as needed.
1a: "Before the watchtower organisation"
Those with a knowledge of "Watchtower" history, are familiar with the idea that this organization started in the late 1800s. Although the organization itself, claims it's origin with God's first martyr Abel... due to it's claim of being God's collective of righteous witnesses (Matt.23:35; Heb.11:4; 12:24).
...that claim is error. The general population of JWs, are not members of the "Chosen" Elect (Isa.43:10,21; 1Pet.2:9), nor were they all martyred on the altar of God's spiritual Temple, as were the group of martyrs to which Abel belonged (Rev.6:9-11; Heb.12:24).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/04/who-are-yhwhs-witnesses.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/01/who-become-gods-people.html
Regarding the origin of the "Watchtower", here are the facts:
And so, when you ask about the period "before the watchtower was organized", that would mean the period in which anointed existed, previous to the formation of the "Watchtower" organization.
That period would run between Pentecost 33CE (John7:38-39; Acts 1:4-5,9; 2:1-2,3-4,32-33), to roughly around 1881.
With that period now clarified, we can move forward.
Next we need to grasp, that according to your question, there are two distinct periods during which, the anointed Chosen Elect members of God's Temple priesthood, exist. Both of those periods are previous to the arrival of God's eternal Kingdom.
Obviously, those two periods are
1. 33 CE thru 1881,
and
2. 1881 thru to the End (Rev.2:26; 1Cor.15:24-25; 2Thess.2:8; 1Cor.15:26; Rev.20:14-15; 1Pet.4:7; 2Pet.3:7,10-11,12-13)
Those two periods, coincide with two Bible periods...
1. The "Thousand Year" kingdom of Jesus Christ
[starts: 33CE - Ends: Birth of "Watchtower" kingdom over anointed]
2. Lifespan of "Watchtower" kingdom
[captivates and conquers the anointed, Gentiles trample God's Temple priesthood into powerlessness (the Great Tribulation) and
Armageddon. Ends: God's Kingdom)
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/04/two-kingdoms.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014_01_01_archive.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-thousand-years-image-of-beast.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-remaining-ones.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/05/he-who-seeks-to-save-his-life-will-lose.html
---
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/05/why-jesus-came-to-earth-last-world.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/02/two-witnesses-lampstands.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/12/here-is-earlier-post-with-updates.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/02/thought-from-friend-read-rev-184-again_9845.html
To summarize all major spiritual eras, in chronological order...
1. Creation TO Christ and the spiritual begetting of sons of God, including...
2. The "Thousand Year" reign of Christ.
3. Release of Satan from Abyss / end of "thousand years" / Satan's short period of time /
Great Tribulation + Armageddon / TO The End
4. Victory of Armageddon / Eternal Kingdom of God commences,
given to Jesus Christ and his Holy Ones
Your question pertains to eras 2 & 3.
How so?
---The period of anointed ones, before the "Watchtower", runs from Pentecost TO the end of the "Thousand Year" kingdom of Jesus and the release of Satan from the abyss (Rev.20:7).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/11/satans-release-how.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/08/what-happened-in-1914.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/08/who-has-key-to-abyss.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/06/i-have-found-typing-mistakes-below-and.html
---The period after which the "Watchtower" emerges, runs from Satan's release/Great Tribulation/Armageddon, TO the End of Satanic rule (and the start of God's Kingdom).
With this chronology establish, we can proceed with your question:
What about before watch tower was organized? Who did the anointed have to belong to then?
The anointed always belong to the Body of Christ, which includes the steward appointed to feed that household (Rom.12:5; Eph.2:19; Matt.24:45). That steward can prove to be either faithful, or wicked (Matt.10:36; 24:48-49,50-51). Both the wicked and the righteous generations, exist throughout time (Gen.3:15; Matt.13:30; Rev.12:17,7)(Ps.112:2; Phil.2:15)... from Cain -vs- Abel, down to the "Two witnesses"/last chaste Virgins -vs- the last adulterous Harlot/"two-horned" false prophet (Rev.13:11; Isa.28:15)(Rev.14:4-5). It is an enmity without rest, until the final battle is won.
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/01/spiritual-virginity-what-is-it.html
The wicked appear rich, powerful, and glorious.
The faithful, appear despised, weak, and foolish
(1Cor.4:8-10,11-13; Rev.3:17-18; 2Cor.11:3-5,12-15,23-25,26-27,28,29-30; 12:9-10; 13:4)
Why those contrasting appearances?
Who is it, that rules over the desire of the eyes? Who is it that bestows worldly glory, dominion, power, and riches?
The unfaithful have a respectable appearance, because they have failed the test of Satan (Luke 4:5-7). In contrast, the faithful, are given the glory of Christ (John17:22).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/12/glory.html
The wicked are the ones with worldly power, authority, and glory. Like the Jewish religious leaders; they are the ones responsible for the slaughter of the faithful (Matt.23:37,32,34-35; Rev.18:24; 6:10; 19:2). This has been going on, since Cain and Abel (1John3:12; 2:9-11; 4:20-21).
As we learned above about the maturation of the sons of the kingdom... it takes time in the individual life of each chosen one, to reach the full grown stature of Christ, which entails a death for truth. While still a babe, such ones are under the stewardship of the wicked and powerful... similar to how Jesus was (Gal.4:4; Luke 2:46,50-52; John1:11).
As such ones grow to recognize the umbrella of corruption they are under; their truth-loving heart chaffs under the unjust oppression and deceptive doctrine (Eph.5:11; Rev.2:2-3; 2Cor.11:12-13; Ps.26:4; Eph.4:25). They no longer wish to condone the climate of rebelliousness toward God (Eze.2:6; Rev.9:3). They long to establish their loyalty and love for their heavenly Father and the truths of Jesus Christ
(2Cor.10:3-5; Rev.19:11,14,8; 12:10-11; 17:14).
The result?
They faithfully follow the path of Jesus, all the way to it's inevitable end... a death for truth. They become sealed as slaves to God alone.
There is no shortage of that wicked generation (Matt.23:33,36; Phil.2:15; John8:44). But Jesus assures us, that if we seek them out, we will also be able to identify the righteous generation (Ps.14:5; 112:2; Matt.24:34; 7:20)... and those appointed by Jesus (Luke12:42; Rev.11:3), who are faithful in providing the proper food at the proper time.
https://pearl-finetrees.blogspot.com
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/10/who-really-is.html
We can recognize them, by their lasting fruit, and their fulfilling the sign of the Son of Man (Matt.12:40; 24:28; Rev.11:7-8).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-sign-of-son-of-man.html
So again I post your question;
"What about before watch tower was organized? Who did the anointed have to belong to then?
Before the "Watchtower" organization was formed; those anointed striving to be faithful, would need to divorce themselves from the powerful religious corruption surrounding them. We have within historical accounts, many who lived that pattern of both corruption and faithfulness.
If any need assistance in order to understand this post, please contact me using the contact form in the right-side column of this page. That contact box can also be used to ask questions.
I hope my reply, addressed your need. Of course, the search box at the top can also be used to get more information than what is offered in this post, on any of the topics that were raised.
1: “If the anointed need to be disfellowshipped (killed -John16:2) in order to be sealed, then they would need to have been a part of false religion. What about before watch tower was organized? Who did the anointed have to belong to then? ””
PREFACE:
Previous to the Chosen becoming mature/(sealed) into the full-grown stature of Christ (Eph.4:13-14; 1Cor.2:6,16; 13:11; 14:20; Phil.3:10), they are under the care of ("belong to") a steward/household manager (1Cor.4:1,15-16; Gal.4:1-2,19; Col.1:25; Luke 12:42).
With spiritual growth (Heb.5:14; Col.1:28; Heb.12:23; 2Pet.1:4), comes the need for each individual to take a stand and die for the Truth
(Mark 4:28-29; John12:24; 1Cor.15:36; Mark 13:13; 8:35; Matt.25:6; Heb.13:13; Rom.6:5; Rev.6:9-11).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/10/coming-to-life.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/01/symbolic-death-by-means-of-world.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/05/he-who-seeks-to-save-his-life-will-lose.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/04/wheat-and-weed-seeds-grow-up-and-mature.html
That death is often sourced, with a wicked steward (Luke12:45-46; 16:1-2).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-stewards-sacred-trust.html
https://pearl-wastefulsteward.blogspot.com/
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/trample-how-does-it-happen.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2018/01/by-this-love-among-yourselves-all-will.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/10/why-does-master-delay-luke1235-stay.html
We today, can come to recognize how that "death" is presently occurring. (see 8 links above)
The question now being asked, essentially is;
'How could the anointed who existed previous to the "Watchtower", become sealed by a death for truth?'
NOTE: There is a pattern for those who finish the course of Christ (Phil.3:10-12,16-17; 1Pet.2:21; Matt.16:24-25; Rom.6:5-6,7-8) and become sealed.
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/search?q=becoming+sealed
The same destination of being sealed, has a path that varies between those who are sealed during the "Thousand Year" kingdom of Christ, and those sealed during the Great Tribulation (which occurs after the "Thousand Years").
This directly pertains to the question at hand, because the "thousand years" are before the emergence of the "Watchtower", and the Great Tribulation occurs when the "Watchtower" exists.
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-day-and-night-of-thousand-years-two.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-thousand-years-image-of-beast.html
(for more information about when the "thousand years" take place, please use the search box)
Those sealed during the "thousand years" and before Satan's release from the abyss (Rev.20:7) (and his subsequent installation of the False Prophet and it's Beast) (Rev.16:13-16; 20:7-8; 13:1,4,11,14-15; 19:20)...
...were never conquered by those agents of Satan (Rev.20:4).
Those who had been taken captive and conquered (Col.2:8; Rev.13:10,7) after Satan's release (and during the Great Tribulation), must repent, be washed clean, and ride forth with Christ in the battle against those agents of demonic deception (Rev.15:2; 2:26-27; 17:14; 2Cor.10:3-5; Eph.6:12).
------------------
My reply:
Your two questions are at the apex of much information, which could have subsets of questions, beneath them. To be thorough, I will break those questions down, in my attempt to make a fuller reply, clear and comprehensible.
In order to accept some of the assertions to follow; background information will need to be researched and studied before it is accepted.
In order to stick to the questions at hand, I will not include all that information here and now, but will insert links for those who deem the assertions, unproven by scripture. Please use the linked references, as needed.
1a: "Before the watchtower organisation"
Those with a knowledge of "Watchtower" history, are familiar with the idea that this organization started in the late 1800s. Although the organization itself, claims it's origin with God's first martyr Abel... due to it's claim of being God's collective of righteous witnesses (Matt.23:35; Heb.11:4; 12:24).
...that claim is error. The general population of JWs, are not members of the "Chosen" Elect (Isa.43:10,21; 1Pet.2:9), nor were they all martyred on the altar of God's spiritual Temple, as were the group of martyrs to which Abel belonged (Rev.6:9-11; Heb.12:24).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/04/who-are-yhwhs-witnesses.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/01/who-become-gods-people.html
Regarding the origin of the "Watchtower", here are the facts:
Founders: Charles Taze Russell
Place founded: Pittsburgh
That period would run between Pentecost 33CE (John7:38-39; Acts 1:4-5,9; 2:1-2,3-4,32-33), to roughly around 1881.
With that period now clarified, we can move forward.
Next we need to grasp, that according to your question, there are two distinct periods during which, the anointed Chosen Elect members of God's Temple priesthood, exist. Both of those periods are previous to the arrival of God's eternal Kingdom.
Obviously, those two periods are
1. 33 CE thru 1881,
and
2. 1881 thru to the End (Rev.2:26; 1Cor.15:24-25; 2Thess.2:8; 1Cor.15:26; Rev.20:14-15; 1Pet.4:7; 2Pet.3:7,10-11,12-13)
Those two periods, coincide with two Bible periods...
1. The "Thousand Year" kingdom of Jesus Christ
[starts: 33CE - Ends: Birth of "Watchtower" kingdom over anointed]
2. Lifespan of "Watchtower" kingdom
[captivates and conquers the anointed, Gentiles trample God's Temple priesthood into powerlessness (the Great Tribulation) and
Armageddon. Ends: God's Kingdom)
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/04/two-kingdoms.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014_01_01_archive.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-thousand-years-image-of-beast.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-remaining-ones.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/05/he-who-seeks-to-save-his-life-will-lose.html
---
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/05/why-jesus-came-to-earth-last-world.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/02/two-witnesses-lampstands.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/12/here-is-earlier-post-with-updates.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2012/02/thought-from-friend-read-rev-184-again_9845.html
To summarize all major spiritual eras, in chronological order...
1. Creation TO Christ and the spiritual begetting of sons of God, including...
2. The "Thousand Year" reign of Christ.
3. Release of Satan from Abyss / end of "thousand years" / Satan's short period of time /
Great Tribulation + Armageddon / TO The End
4. Victory of Armageddon / Eternal Kingdom of God commences,
given to Jesus Christ and his Holy Ones
Your question pertains to eras 2 & 3.
How so?
---The period of anointed ones, before the "Watchtower", runs from Pentecost TO the end of the "Thousand Year" kingdom of Jesus and the release of Satan from the abyss (Rev.20:7).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/11/satans-release-how.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/08/what-happened-in-1914.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/08/who-has-key-to-abyss.html
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/06/i-have-found-typing-mistakes-below-and.html
---The period after which the "Watchtower" emerges, runs from Satan's release/Great Tribulation/Armageddon, TO the End of Satanic rule (and the start of God's Kingdom).
With this chronology establish, we can proceed with your question:
What about before watch tower was organized? Who did the anointed have to belong to then?
The anointed always belong to the Body of Christ, which includes the steward appointed to feed that household (Rom.12:5; Eph.2:19; Matt.24:45). That steward can prove to be either faithful, or wicked (Matt.10:36; 24:48-49,50-51). Both the wicked and the righteous generations, exist throughout time (Gen.3:15; Matt.13:30; Rev.12:17,7)(Ps.112:2; Phil.2:15)... from Cain -vs- Abel, down to the "Two witnesses"/last chaste Virgins -vs- the last adulterous Harlot/"two-horned" false prophet (Rev.13:11; Isa.28:15)(Rev.14:4-5). It is an enmity without rest, until the final battle is won.
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/01/spiritual-virginity-what-is-it.html
The wicked appear rich, powerful, and glorious.
The faithful, appear despised, weak, and foolish
(1Cor.4:8-10,11-13; Rev.3:17-18; 2Cor.11:3-5,12-15,23-25,26-27,28,29-30; 12:9-10; 13:4)
Why those contrasting appearances?
Who is it, that rules over the desire of the eyes? Who is it that bestows worldly glory, dominion, power, and riches?
The unfaithful have a respectable appearance, because they have failed the test of Satan (Luke 4:5-7). In contrast, the faithful, are given the glory of Christ (John17:22).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/12/glory.html
The wicked are the ones with worldly power, authority, and glory. Like the Jewish religious leaders; they are the ones responsible for the slaughter of the faithful (Matt.23:37,32,34-35; Rev.18:24; 6:10; 19:2). This has been going on, since Cain and Abel (1John3:12; 2:9-11; 4:20-21).
As we learned above about the maturation of the sons of the kingdom... it takes time in the individual life of each chosen one, to reach the full grown stature of Christ, which entails a death for truth. While still a babe, such ones are under the stewardship of the wicked and powerful... similar to how Jesus was (Gal.4:4; Luke 2:46,50-52; John1:11).
As such ones grow to recognize the umbrella of corruption they are under; their truth-loving heart chaffs under the unjust oppression and deceptive doctrine (Eph.5:11; Rev.2:2-3; 2Cor.11:12-13; Ps.26:4; Eph.4:25). They no longer wish to condone the climate of rebelliousness toward God (Eze.2:6; Rev.9:3). They long to establish their loyalty and love for their heavenly Father and the truths of Jesus Christ
(2Cor.10:3-5; Rev.19:11,14,8; 12:10-11; 17:14).
The result?
They faithfully follow the path of Jesus, all the way to it's inevitable end... a death for truth. They become sealed as slaves to God alone.
There is no shortage of that wicked generation (Matt.23:33,36; Phil.2:15; John8:44). But Jesus assures us, that if we seek them out, we will also be able to identify the righteous generation (Ps.14:5; 112:2; Matt.24:34; 7:20)... and those appointed by Jesus (Luke12:42; Rev.11:3), who are faithful in providing the proper food at the proper time.
https://pearl-finetrees.blogspot.com
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/10/who-really-is.html
We can recognize them, by their lasting fruit, and their fulfilling the sign of the Son of Man (Matt.12:40; 24:28; Rev.11:7-8).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-sign-of-son-of-man.html
So again I post your question;
"What about before watch tower was organized? Who did the anointed have to belong to then?
The point that I hope was gleaned, is that in order to reign with Jesus, they Chosen must also prove faithful to the death, while being sifted by Satan their enemy. That is why they need to die in order to be sealed (Rev.6:9-11; Mark 8:35; Rev.12:10-11).
This proves that despite Satanic temptation and persecution, their love of Christ and his truths, are more important to them than their own lives... just as was the case with Jesus. By manifesting that love in their righteous actions and choices (despite threat of death), they are sealed as slaves of God and qualified to inherit the Kingdom.
If any need assistance in order to understand this post, please contact me using the contact form in the right-side column of this page. That contact box can also be used to ask questions.
I hope my reply, addressed your need. Of course, the search box at the top can also be used to get more information than what is offered in this post, on any of the topics that were raised.
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