A comment with questions was left at the end of the post; "Various Topics"
Due to space restraints, I am posting the comment and my reply, in this post below.
COMMENT:
Many of the scriptural truths I've learned from your posts, Pearl, have been easier to grasp than the concept of Satan being the destroyer and not YHWH. The JW governing body have inculcated in the minds of their followers that YHWH is a bloodthirsty God, that is hard to remove from mind particularly when reading verses that use the word, "wrath." It does though make much better sense that God is not mischievously bloodthirsty, but IS love (1 John 4:8).
For clarification so that I might fully grasp the term, "wrath"... the wrath of the Lamb and the wrath of God expressed in Revelation (Rev. 15:7; Rev 6:16) are in harmony with Ex. 23:22 and Ps. 2:12 where it speaks of God blessing those who take refuge in him...blessing them spiritually (understanding of truths), correct? And is the understanding that God's wrath that comes upon those who are spiritually asleep or drunk, suddenly, as a thief in the night is his allowance of the harlot to be eaten alive by the wild beast along with all those who are also spiritually drunk, not loving the truth about God and his son?
Thanks for your patience as we sort out previous and false teachings!
Rachel
MY REPLY:
Hello Rachel,
Yes, it is hard to overturn, "strongly entrenched things" (2Cor.10:4-5). That is why Jesus told us that we need a new wine skin to hold new wine (Mark 2:22). Otherwise we will not be able to incorporate into our understanding and faith, the opening of the scrolls at the marriage feast (Rev.20:12; Matt.22:4,8-10; Rev.19:9).
-
The Destroyer, certainly is Satan (Rev.9:11; Isa.33:1; John10:10).
Even though we know that Jesus gains the keys to Death and Hades (Rev.1:18), that does not mean that Satan never had that same authority over Death and Deception (Hades), previous to Jesus winning that authority and power away from the Devil (Heb.2:14; John8:44; Gen.3:13; Rom.5:12; Rev.20:14).
(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2017/04/what-is-sheole-hades.html)
(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/08/who-has-key-to-abyss.html)
Let me take your referenced scriptures, and open them somewhat...
"Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever." (Rev.15:7)
Okay. First we must keep in mind that Revelation is written in symbolism.
The "FOUR LIVING CREATURES", are watchmen...
(Isa.62:6; Rev.4:8,6; Mark 13:33-34 <(Lit."keep watch"); Matt.6:22; Luke 12:35,37; Rev.3:20; Luke12:36; John10:3)
...covered with eyes (to watch).
Eyes, stand for lamplight (Rev.4:6; Matt.6:22-23), which is understanding (2Cor.4:6; Eph.5:8,13; Ps.36:9).
The enlightened spiritual perception of these assigned watchmen, are charged with keeping vigil over God's nation. They are to identify any encroaching enemies (both outside and inside), alert the city when it's king is arriving, and sound the alarm / vital warning, when danger threatens (Rev.6:7-8).
[NOTE: Rev.6:7 properly reads; "Come AND SEE".
(https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev6.pdf)
(G991 - https://studybible.info/strongs/G991).
That fact makes more sense, of John's response to
the fourth living creature, shown in the next verse: Rev.6:8]
Such danger arrives, when Satan is released from the abyss, and he ignites the Great Tribulation (Matt.24:15-16), which results in Armageddon
(Rev.20:7-8; 16:16,13-15; 17:14; 2Cor.10:3-5; Rev.13:10; Col.2:8; Luke 21:24; Rev.13:7).
[https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/04/two-kingdoms.html]
Next, we see that one of these four creatures, gives to seven angels, seven golden bowls.
Okay. First of all, the SEVEN ANGELS, are the prophets that are used, as Christ's 'right hand' messengers to the 'seven congregations' and household of God.
(Rev.1:20; Matt.5:15; Rev.10:7; 22:6; Ps.45:4; Rev.1:20).
GOLDEN BOWLS, are hearts (Zech.13:9; Job 23:10; Jer.17:10; Ps.62:8; Prov.17:3).
Such fire-tested/refined hearts, are fit to speak for God
(Isa.6:5-7; 1Thess.2:4; Luke 6:45).
Until the time of the end, much understanding of what the prophets foretold, has been kept secret
(Dan.12:9,4; Rev.10:4; Matt.13:16-17,35; John16:12-13; Rom.16:25; Rev.10:7; 22:10).
THE TIME ARRIVES for all the prophets, to "pour out their hearts" once again, so that their sealed up words of condemnation are heard, understood, and applied... poured out upon the "earth". That is a parallel to the scrolls being 'opened' (Rev.20:12).
(John12:48; 16:12-14; 14:26; Luke 24:45; Rev.10:7; 19:10; 1Cor.13:9-10).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/search?q=symbolic+earth
Of course we know, that the ancient prophets are now dead. How then, can their voices once again be heard?
How can their hearts, once again pour out God's condemnation? (Luke6:45; Lam.2:19)
Well first we need to remember, that the prophets speak for God (Matt.10:20; Deut.18:18; Jer.29:19; 5:14; Rev.11:3,5; Eze.2:7).
They are the ones that relate God's "wrath".
If we look closer at the wrath, relayed by God's prophets...
is that something physical?...
or is that wrath, a verbal condemnation?
(Rev.11:3,5; Jer.5:14; 23:29) We know that the wrath poured out from the heart of a prophet, through his mouth...
is the condemnation of God...
not a physical murder.
How is it that the fourth living creature... gives a golden bowl to each of the prophets of God to pour out?
Even though those prophets are now dead, the last watchman can give them voice (Rev.10:3,7). Through the words of God, spoken through the prophets and recorded down for us in scripture... the last watchman can make those words, once again, be heard. He can give a voice to those prophets. They can once again, pour out their bowl of God's wrath (Rev.15:7).
I hope you can visualize this spiritual event, according to the knowledge which these symbols gives us.
Regarding your citation of Rev.6:16...
We can ask ourselves... how is it that those who seek shelter in "rocks and caves", also seek to avoid the condemnation/wrath of the Lamb?
Jesus said that his own teachings, would be the basis of judgment (John12:48). The law of Christ was love (John13:34) and judgment is based upon, love for his own brothers (Matt.25:37-46). Those who try to hide from that fact, are those who have sought spiritual protection, among the powerful and prominent "Mountains/hills" (Rev.17:9) and hardened "Rocks" (Job 41:24; Zech.7:12) of the Gentiles. Do we not see that today? I will be writing more about this, in the future.
-
Those condemned by the words of Jesus, would become manifested by the things they taught (Matt.12:37). Those who have misplaced their worship and service to God, have given it to a god of stone and wood (dead trees) (Rev.13:8; Rom.1:25). They feel self-righteous, and with their words they slander and condemn the righteous to death (Luke 12:45; Rev.17:6) (Matt.5:11-12; 10:22; John15:18,20; Matt.26:65; John16:2; Isa.66:5; 3John1:10; Rom.9:26; Rev.11:7-8,9-10).
Does this not defy the Law of Jesus Christ, and rebel against his teaching?
Why then, would Jesus die for such ones (John15:10,13-14)?
Jesus is keeping a scroll of life (Rev.3:5; 13:8; 20:12; 21:27). He has a right to judge (John5:22,27). Those found not fit, will not be written in his scroll of life. His wrath remains upon them (Rev.17:8; 20:15; Jer.23:29).
That wrath, is condemnation, by means of God's Word (Rev.19:15; Heb.4:12; Isa.11:4). These thoughts are also in harmony with your citation of Ex.23:22 and Ps.2:12.
I hope that answers your questions.
If not, please reply.
Love in Christ,
Pearl
Due to space restraints, I am posting the comment and my reply, in this post below.
COMMENT:
Many of the scriptural truths I've learned from your posts, Pearl, have been easier to grasp than the concept of Satan being the destroyer and not YHWH. The JW governing body have inculcated in the minds of their followers that YHWH is a bloodthirsty God, that is hard to remove from mind particularly when reading verses that use the word, "wrath." It does though make much better sense that God is not mischievously bloodthirsty, but IS love (1 John 4:8).
For clarification so that I might fully grasp the term, "wrath"... the wrath of the Lamb and the wrath of God expressed in Revelation (Rev. 15:7; Rev 6:16) are in harmony with Ex. 23:22 and Ps. 2:12 where it speaks of God blessing those who take refuge in him...blessing them spiritually (understanding of truths), correct? And is the understanding that God's wrath that comes upon those who are spiritually asleep or drunk, suddenly, as a thief in the night is his allowance of the harlot to be eaten alive by the wild beast along with all those who are also spiritually drunk, not loving the truth about God and his son?
Thanks for your patience as we sort out previous and false teachings!
Rachel
MY REPLY:
Hello Rachel,
Yes, it is hard to overturn, "strongly entrenched things" (2Cor.10:4-5). That is why Jesus told us that we need a new wine skin to hold new wine (Mark 2:22). Otherwise we will not be able to incorporate into our understanding and faith, the opening of the scrolls at the marriage feast (Rev.20:12; Matt.22:4,8-10; Rev.19:9).
-
The Destroyer, certainly is Satan (Rev.9:11; Isa.33:1; John10:10).
Even though we know that Jesus gains the keys to Death and Hades (Rev.1:18), that does not mean that Satan never had that same authority over Death and Deception (Hades), previous to Jesus winning that authority and power away from the Devil (Heb.2:14; John8:44; Gen.3:13; Rom.5:12; Rev.20:14).
(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2017/04/what-is-sheole-hades.html)
(https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/08/who-has-key-to-abyss.html)
Let me take your referenced scriptures, and open them somewhat...
"Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever." (Rev.15:7)
Okay. First we must keep in mind that Revelation is written in symbolism.
The "FOUR LIVING CREATURES", are watchmen...
(Isa.62:6; Rev.4:8,6; Mark 13:33-34 <(Lit."keep watch"); Matt.6:22; Luke 12:35,37; Rev.3:20; Luke12:36; John10:3)
...covered with eyes (to watch).
Eyes, stand for lamplight (Rev.4:6; Matt.6:22-23), which is understanding (2Cor.4:6; Eph.5:8,13; Ps.36:9).
The enlightened spiritual perception of these assigned watchmen, are charged with keeping vigil over God's nation. They are to identify any encroaching enemies (both outside and inside), alert the city when it's king is arriving, and sound the alarm / vital warning, when danger threatens (Rev.6:7-8).
[NOTE: Rev.6:7 properly reads; "Come AND SEE".
(https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev6.pdf)
(G991 - https://studybible.info/strongs/G991).
That fact makes more sense, of John's response to
the fourth living creature, shown in the next verse: Rev.6:8]
Such danger arrives, when Satan is released from the abyss, and he ignites the Great Tribulation (Matt.24:15-16), which results in Armageddon
(Rev.20:7-8; 16:16,13-15; 17:14; 2Cor.10:3-5; Rev.13:10; Col.2:8; Luke 21:24; Rev.13:7).
[https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/04/two-kingdoms.html]
Next, we see that one of these four creatures, gives to seven angels, seven golden bowls.
Okay. First of all, the SEVEN ANGELS, are the prophets that are used, as Christ's 'right hand' messengers to the 'seven congregations' and household of God.
(Rev.1:20; Matt.5:15; Rev.10:7; 22:6; Ps.45:4; Rev.1:20).
GOLDEN BOWLS, are hearts (Zech.13:9; Job 23:10; Jer.17:10; Ps.62:8; Prov.17:3).
Such fire-tested/refined hearts, are fit to speak for God
(Isa.6:5-7; 1Thess.2:4; Luke 6:45).
Until the time of the end, much understanding of what the prophets foretold, has been kept secret
(Dan.12:9,4; Rev.10:4; Matt.13:16-17,35; John16:12-13; Rom.16:25; Rev.10:7; 22:10).
THE TIME ARRIVES for all the prophets, to "pour out their hearts" once again, so that their sealed up words of condemnation are heard, understood, and applied... poured out upon the "earth". That is a parallel to the scrolls being 'opened' (Rev.20:12).
(John12:48; 16:12-14; 14:26; Luke 24:45; Rev.10:7; 19:10; 1Cor.13:9-10).
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/search?q=symbolic+earth
Of course we know, that the ancient prophets are now dead. How then, can their voices once again be heard?
How can their hearts, once again pour out God's condemnation? (Luke6:45; Lam.2:19)
Well first we need to remember, that the prophets speak for God (Matt.10:20; Deut.18:18; Jer.29:19; 5:14; Rev.11:3,5; Eze.2:7).
They are the ones that relate God's "wrath".
If we look closer at the wrath, relayed by God's prophets...
is that something physical?...
or is that wrath, a verbal condemnation?
(Rev.11:3,5; Jer.5:14; 23:29) We know that the wrath poured out from the heart of a prophet, through his mouth...
is the condemnation of God...
not a physical murder.
How is it that the fourth living creature... gives a golden bowl to each of the prophets of God to pour out?
Even though those prophets are now dead, the last watchman can give them voice (Rev.10:3,7). Through the words of God, spoken through the prophets and recorded down for us in scripture... the last watchman can make those words, once again, be heard. He can give a voice to those prophets. They can once again, pour out their bowl of God's wrath (Rev.15:7).
I hope you can visualize this spiritual event, according to the knowledge which these symbols gives us.
Regarding your citation of Rev.6:16...
We can ask ourselves... how is it that those who seek shelter in "rocks and caves", also seek to avoid the condemnation/wrath of the Lamb?
Jesus said that his own teachings, would be the basis of judgment (John12:48). The law of Christ was love (John13:34) and judgment is based upon, love for his own brothers (Matt.25:37-46). Those who try to hide from that fact, are those who have sought spiritual protection, among the powerful and prominent "Mountains/hills" (Rev.17:9) and hardened "Rocks" (Job 41:24; Zech.7:12) of the Gentiles. Do we not see that today? I will be writing more about this, in the future.
-
Those condemned by the words of Jesus, would become manifested by the things they taught (Matt.12:37). Those who have misplaced their worship and service to God, have given it to a god of stone and wood (dead trees) (Rev.13:8; Rom.1:25). They feel self-righteous, and with their words they slander and condemn the righteous to death (Luke 12:45; Rev.17:6) (Matt.5:11-12; 10:22; John15:18,20; Matt.26:65; John16:2; Isa.66:5; 3John1:10; Rom.9:26; Rev.11:7-8,9-10).
Does this not defy the Law of Jesus Christ, and rebel against his teaching?
Why then, would Jesus die for such ones (John15:10,13-14)?
Jesus is keeping a scroll of life (Rev.3:5; 13:8; 20:12; 21:27). He has a right to judge (John5:22,27). Those found not fit, will not be written in his scroll of life. His wrath remains upon them (Rev.17:8; 20:15; Jer.23:29).
That wrath, is condemnation, by means of God's Word (Rev.19:15; Heb.4:12; Isa.11:4). These thoughts are also in harmony with your citation of Ex.23:22 and Ps.2:12.
I hope that answers your questions.
If not, please reply.
Love in Christ,
Pearl
The old wineskin is not being recycled! Thank you Pearl, for your part in heeding the scriptures and sharing once again, this time opening up understanding regarding God's wrath! Love in Christ, Rachel
ReplyDelete