Here is a comment I posted at the forum.
I thought the information would be good to post here also.
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Jesus well knew the final scenario. He spoke of us losing family members.
Yet the GB teaches that these are those that remain inside the Organization, which are losing disfellowshipped family members, by means of their loyalty to the Organization.
They are told to remain strong...loyal to the Organization...while family members are disfellowshipped.
Which is it? Who did Jesus have in mind when he spoke about his own disciples losing familiy members due to their loyalty?
The scriptures tell us clearly.
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his torture stake and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. (Matt.10:34-39)
Our first clue, is that the division within families, caused by the sword of truth, will also cause the faithful to lose their previous lives.
Now look at verses 21,22:
"21 “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved." (Matt.10:21,22)
(John 16:2)
Now we learn that the division in families will cause the faithful to be handed over by loved ones, to be killed.
The faithful will seem so despicable, that they will be hated by everyone in their lives, including family.
And it is clear that we are speaking of the end time, because we must "endure" this persecution, "to the end".
Who loses their former life, is handed over by loved ones to "death", and is "hated by everyone", including family members?
Is it those who are disfellowshipped for having exclusive devotion to God, or
I thought the information would be good to post here also.
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Jesus well knew the final scenario. He spoke of us losing family members.
Yet the GB teaches that these are those that remain inside the Organization, which are losing disfellowshipped family members, by means of their loyalty to the Organization.
They are told to remain strong...loyal to the Organization...while family members are disfellowshipped.
Which is it? Who did Jesus have in mind when he spoke about his own disciples losing familiy members due to their loyalty?
The scriptures tell us clearly.
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his torture stake and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. (Matt.10:34-39)
Our first clue, is that the division within families, caused by the sword of truth, will also cause the faithful to lose their previous lives.
Now look at verses 21,22:
"21 “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved." (Matt.10:21,22)
(John 16:2)
Now we learn that the division in families will cause the faithful to be handed over by loved ones, to be killed.
The faithful will seem so despicable, that they will be hated by everyone in their lives, including family.
And it is clear that we are speaking of the end time, because we must "endure" this persecution, "to the end".
Who loses their former life, is handed over by loved ones to "death", and is "hated by everyone", including family members?
Is it those who are disfellowshipped for having exclusive devotion to God, or
those who cling to and are loyal to the Organization?
Do so called "apostates" hand over their loved ones to be "killed" and thrown out of their congregation?
(John 16:2; Mark 8:35)
Do so called "apostates" hand over their loved ones to be "killed" and thrown out of their congregation?
(John 16:2; Mark 8:35)
I know by personal experience, as well as the many letters I receive,
that those who are disfellowshipped for refusing to worship (serve and obey) the GB and Org.
are the ones who are turned in to the "elders" by family members and "friends", to be "attacked" and "killed", under the veneer of "shepherding" (Eze.34:2,10; Jer.12:10; 1Cor.3:9,16; Jer.23:1).
The "elders" themselves view the disfellowshipping judgment to follow, as a spiritual "death".
On the other hand,
who do the so-called apostates turn "Jehovah's Witnesses" over to, in order for them to be disgraced and killed?
As a rule, those who are disfellowshipped do not treat their loved ones with any less love,
but absolutely, those who are loyal to the Org., do shun disfellowshipped ones and treat them with disdain and disrepute. This is due to the teaching that those who leave the organization, are leaving God. This is a lie. The God of salvation, is not the organizational Idol
(Ps.146:3,5; 1Cor.7:23; Gal.1:10; Col.3:24)
Those loyal to the Org. do not lose their lives through this pattern (John 16:2; Mark 13:13; Matt.10:36,39; 25:44,45,46), but certainly,
those disfellowshipped ones, who have spent decades serving the Organization and have raised their children accordingly,
and have chosen a marriage mate as directed,
have lost the life they knew. The losses include friends, marriage mates, children, and parents....exactly as described by Christ!
For even more clarity on who it is who suffers loss for the sake of Christ,
let's examine the scriptures that describe HOW the faithful lose their lives, family, and reputation.
Those who take an open stand for the scriptures, are judged and expelled by the local "elders".
These believe that they have the authority and power to judge and spiritually "kill",
depriving the person of the life they knew, including contact with loved ones.
They believe that in doing so, they are serving God.
Jesus also knew these details, regarding those who would lose their lives and family.
He said:
"“These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. 2 They will put you out of the synagogues; (Greek: "de-church you/dis-fellowship you) yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. 3 And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. 4 But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them." (John 16:1-4)
Where do "elders" get the idea that they have this authority to judge the anointed and destroy their lives? (1Cor.3:17)
Are they themselves mislead?
"Elders" practice a belief in the following scriptures...
"22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John 20:22,23)
"17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
18 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matt.18:17,18)
(NOTE: Who is the "church"? See Eph.5:23,25; Rev.21:9,10; 1Cor. 12:27,18,27,28; 6:2)
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."(Matt.16:19)
Yet a closer look at those cited verses reveal that this authority is not for non-anointed Gentile elders at all, but is given to those of the faithful anointed, the Lamb's wife. (1Cor.6:2,3)
("Elders Spirit-appointed?")
"Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?" (1Cor.6:2,3)
But certainly,
if it were not proper for "elders" to judge and "kill" anointed for their dissonance with the governing leaders (Mark 10:42,43; Col. 2:18), due to elders exercising of a false authority;
would not such a supposed error, also be mentioned by Christ in his end time prophecies?
"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he takes his seat (of judgment) in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." (2Thess.2:4)
"God's Temple" is the anointed priesthood (1Pet.2:5,9; Eph.2:20,21,22; 1Cor.3:16).
According to 2Thess.2:3,4, there is an apparent "man of lawlessness", who is exalted above that Temple,
which puts God's Temple under "him".
Confirmation comes for this scenario, when we read Rev.11:2....
"2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months." (Rev.11:2)
(Mark 13:14; Matt.24:15-16; Eze.36:8)(https://pearl-disgustingthing.blogspot.com)
Christ is to be the head of his anointed body of priests (Eph.5:23; 1:22; Col.1:18).
Those priests are to be slaves of God alone (Rev.7:3; 14:1).
Any who subject these chosen ones under them, usurp the headship of Christ over those to be his wife (2Cor.11:2,3,4,20; Rev.13:10,7).
They make themselves "equal to God" (2Thess.2:4), because they dare replace Him as Master over his Sons and Daughters.
Could it be true, that the elders do not have genuine authority to judge and destroy the anointed slaves of God? (1Cor.3:16,17; Isa.49:25)
"Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand." (Rom.14:4)
Any who subject these chosen ones under them, usurp the headship of Christ over those to be his wife (2Cor.11:2,3,4,20; Rev.13:10,7).
They make themselves "equal to God" (2Thess.2:4), because they dare replace Him as Master over his Sons and Daughters.
Could it be true, that the elders do not have genuine authority to judge and destroy the anointed slaves of God? (1Cor.3:16,17; Isa.49:25)
"Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand." (Rom.14:4)
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 33 Who dares to bring a charge against God’s Chosen Ones? It is God himself who justifies them. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us." (Rom.8:1,33,34)
(See Hosea 4:4)
Why then, do "elders" believe that they have authority to judge and condemn, dishonor, expel, and take the life and family from any Chosen Ones who dare,
to stand up against the false doctrines of the wicked steward? (Rev.2:20,21) (2Cor.10:5)
(Rev.2:20 -"deceives my servants")
Where does their authority and power to do this really come from?
Does prophecy describe this circumstance?
The book of Revelation describes a false prophet. A close look at what this one creates, is intensely interesting...
"11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 14 And he deceives my own people ("Who are God's People?")
(link for "my own people" footnote) who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in behalf of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed." (Rev.13:11,14,15)
"Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in behalf of the Beast, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image." (Rev.19:20)
(Rev.9:8; Isa.3:12,13,14; 28:14,15; 9:16,15; (Rev.9:19); Eze.13:15,16; 7:25; Jer.8:11; Hosea 4:1; Joel 2:1; 3:2,12,13,14; Micah 3:5; 6:2; Isa.3:13; Dan.7:9,10,22; Rev.20:12,15; Rev.13:8) Zeph.3:19,20; Jer.29:14; Mark 13:27; Rom.9:26; Zech.8:8
Note that this false prophet, who is misleading God's own people (the Anointed --1Pet. 2:10,9; Matt.24:24-25)
gives "breath" (spirit -- John 20:22-23) to an image of the Beast, enabling this false image of possessing spirit, to judge and kill all those who do not recognize it's new "spirit-directed" authority.
Where does their authority and power to do this really come from?
Does prophecy describe this circumstance?
The book of Revelation describes a false prophet. A close look at what this one creates, is intensely interesting...
"11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 14 And he deceives my own people ("Who are God's People?")
(link for "my own people" footnote) who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in behalf of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed." (Rev.13:11,14,15)
"Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in behalf of the Beast, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image." (Rev.19:20)
(Rev.9:8; Isa.3:12,13,14; 28:14,15; 9:16,15; (Rev.9:19); Eze.13:15,16; 7:25; Jer.8:11; Hosea 4:1; Joel 2:1; 3:2,12,13,14; Micah 3:5; 6:2; Isa.3:13; Dan.7:9,10,22; Rev.20:12,15; Rev.13:8) Zeph.3:19,20; Jer.29:14; Mark 13:27; Rom.9:26; Zech.8:8
Note that this false prophet, who is misleading God's own people (the Anointed --1Pet. 2:10,9; Matt.24:24-25)
gives "breath" (spirit -- John 20:22-23) to an image of the Beast, enabling this false image of possessing spirit, to judge and kill all those who do not recognize it's new "spirit-directed" authority.
The false prophet performs this sign, "in behalf of the Beast", so it can now use this new authority and power, to kill any who do not worship it (Rev.13:15)
Yes, the image that this Beast possesses Holy Spirit is false, because that spirit/breath, was from the mouth of the false prophet...not from God. (Rev.11:11; John 20:22; Gen.2:7)
Where does the spirit that comes from the mouth of the false prophet come from?
"13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons" (Rev.16)
By means of the breath of the false prophet, the Wild Beast gains authority to deceive, dominate, and "kill", even the Holy Ones. (Rev.13:7,8,10; 11:7)....
Just as the "man of lawlessness" does (2Thess.2:4; 1Cor.3:16).....
and just as the Gentiles do (Rev.11:2).
We are told the "number" of the Beast, is the very same number as a "man" (Rev.13:18NIV; 2Thess.2:3-4).
http://pearl-666.blogspot.com
So we see that there is a Gentile force that stands in the anointed Temple of God, deceives it into subjection to deception (Rev.13:10; Col.2:8; Matt.24:24-25), and has the power to "kill" any who do not obey it.
We see that the Gentile Beast has received that image of spirit authority, on the bases of a false prophet.
We see that the Gentile Beast kills God's prophets (Rev.11:7) for their refusal to submit and worship the Beast (Rev.20:4); and replaces the priests they "kill", as God's spirit-directed exclusive channel, for spiritual provisions
(Rev.13:17; 6:6; 18:11; Isa.55:2,1; Rev.3:18; 2:7; 21:6; John 7:38; Rev.22:17,1,2)
Is it ever acceptable for spiritual Gentiles (Rom.2:28,29) to perform the duties of God's chosen priesthood, by subverting and replacing them in the midst of His Temple?
We see that the Gentile Beast has received that image of spirit authority, on the bases of a false prophet.
We see that the Gentile Beast kills God's prophets (Rev.11:7) for their refusal to submit and worship the Beast (Rev.20:4); and replaces the priests they "kill", as God's spirit-directed exclusive channel, for spiritual provisions
(Rev.13:17; 6:6; 18:11; Isa.55:2,1; Rev.3:18; 2:7; 21:6; John 7:38; Rev.22:17,1,2)
Is it ever acceptable for spiritual Gentiles (Rom.2:28,29) to perform the duties of God's chosen priesthood, by subverting and replacing them in the midst of His Temple?
(Eze.44:6,7,8,9; 2Chron.23:6; Mark 13:14)
Is it proper for an anointed steward to install and sanction such an arrangement of a Gentile priesthood to trample down the genuine anointed of God ...claiming that it is born and backed by God's Spirit?
6 “Now say to the rebellious, to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “O house of Israel, let Us have no more of all your abominations. 7 When you brought in foreigners, uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary to defile it—My temple—and when you offered My food, the fat and the blood, then they broke My covenant because of all your abominations. 8 And you have not kept charge of My holy things, but you have set others to keep charge of My sanctuary for you.” 9 Thus says the Lord God: “No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart or uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter My sanctuary, including any foreigner who is among the children of Israel." (Eze.44:6-9)
Mark 13:14 (https://pearl-disgustingthing.blogspot.com)
Who is it, that has received the "circumcision of the heart" so that they may serve in God's Temple acceptably? Col.2:11,12,13; Rev.5:9,10
"...but he is a Jew (children of Abraham) who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, by the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." (Rom.2:29)
"And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal.3:29)
"...you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1Pet.2:5)
"
So....Do Gentiles belong serving as Temple priests....dominating the Holy Ones, trampling them, and casting them out? (2Chron.13:9)
Could this be viewed as "a disgusting thing, standing in the holy place"? (Matt.24:15-16; Mark 13:14)
( https://pearl-disgustingthing.blogspot.com )
Was it foretold that this would take place?
Yes...
"And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:24)
.....under the dominion of the Gentile Beast, who is granted authority over them, by the false prophet.
"He who goes into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." (Rev.13:10)
6 “Now say to the rebellious, to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “O house of Israel, let Us have no more of all your abominations. 7 When you brought in foreigners, uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary to defile it—My temple—and when you offered My food, the fat and the blood, then they broke My covenant because of all your abominations. 8 And you have not kept charge of My holy things, but you have set others to keep charge of My sanctuary for you.” 9 Thus says the Lord God: “No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart or uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter My sanctuary, including any foreigner who is among the children of Israel." (Eze.44:6-9)
Mark 13:14 (https://pearl-disgustingthing.blogspot.com)
Who is it, that has received the "circumcision of the heart" so that they may serve in God's Temple acceptably? Col.2:11,12,13; Rev.5:9,10
"...but he is a Jew (children of Abraham) who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, by the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." (Rom.2:29)
"And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal.3:29)
"...you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1Pet.2:5)
"
So....Do Gentiles belong serving as Temple priests....dominating the Holy Ones, trampling them, and casting them out? (2Chron.13:9)
Could this be viewed as "a disgusting thing, standing in the holy place"? (Matt.24:15-16; Mark 13:14)
( https://pearl-disgustingthing.blogspot.com )
Was it foretold that this would take place?
Yes...
"And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:24)
.....under the dominion of the Gentile Beast, who is granted authority over them, by the false prophet.
"He who goes into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." (Rev.13:10)
Col.2: "8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ." (Col.2:8)
Despite this powerful captivity to deception, there are some Holy Ones who do stand up against the false image of the Beast (Dan.11:32), an Image purported as having Holy Spirit / as if having divine authority (2Thess. 2:4).
Then, In harmony with the power the false prophet granted the Beast,
they are then killed by it (Rev.11:7; Rev.6:9-11; 12:10,11; 15:2; 14:5).
That "killing" includes, the loss of family (Mark 10:29), one's former life (Mark 8:35; Luke 17:31,32,33), and one's good repute (Heb.13:13; Mark 13:13; 1Cor.4:10,13; Eze.22:9; Isa.66:5; John 16:2,4).
Despite this, we gladly prove our exclusive devotion to God, and thereby, save our lives.
(2Tim.2:10,11,12,13; Rom.3:3; Num.23:19; Ex.34:14; Isa.42:8; Matt.4:10; Rev.15:3,4)
(Rev.13:16; Isa.44:20; Matt.5:30; Rom.1:25; Eph.4:25)
(Matt.10:37,38; Luke 17:33,32; Phil.3:13; Luke 9:62)
"And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom (Jer.23:14) and Egypt (Isa.36:6; Rev.9:11), where also our Lord was crucified (Matt.16:21; 23:37,35; Rev.18:24). 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth." (Rev.11:8-10)
So...according to prophecy, IS it those who remain loyal to men in power that lose family for the sake of truth;
Or, is it those who are cast out, despised, and rejected by Gentiles in power?
(Matt.10:37,38; Luke 17:33,32; Phil.3:13; Luke 9:62)
"And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom (Jer.23:14) and Egypt (Isa.36:6; Rev.9:11), where also our Lord was crucified (Matt.16:21; 23:37,35; Rev.18:24). 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth." (Rev.11:8-10)
So...according to prophecy, IS it those who remain loyal to men in power that lose family for the sake of truth;
Or, is it those who are cast out, despised, and rejected by Gentiles in power?
Is it the expelled faithful and courageous anointed who are the ones who truly suffer all loss, for righteousness' sake?
We must consider that the intense and dire, Great Tribulation / Great Test that comes upon God's people to test their loyalty to him may not be physical at all, but spiritual.
We must consider that the intense and dire, Great Tribulation / Great Test that comes upon God's people to test their loyalty to him may not be physical at all, but spiritual.
Perhaps this is why Jesus said most of his slaves would not even take note, or know what day he came upon them for inspection.
(Luke 17:26,27; Matt.24:43; 1Thess.5:2,4; 2Pet.3:10; Rev.16:15; 3:3; Luke 19:41,42,43,44)
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-greatest-tribulation-why.html
(Luke 17:26,27; Matt.24:43; 1Thess.5:2,4; 2Pet.3:10; Rev.16:15; 3:3; Luke 19:41,42,43,44)
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-greatest-tribulation-why.html
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