Wednesday, January 8, 2014

Memorial Comment

(For those wondering about the subject, of who should partake of the emblems, this post is good: "Who Should Partake?")

Below is a comment which a reader left, at the end of the "Memorial Invitation", posted on 1/6/2014
My reply follows.
COMMENT:

"The Last supper is a symbolic meal that has significance, it's not the actual eating of the meal that truly matters but what the meal represents is what truly matters. So if a person eats the physical meal literal by themselves that does not matter, if a person eats the means literally among other anointed and does not carry out what the meal actually means, than that does matters. What matters is carrying out what that meal symbolizes, which is the gathering together of the body of Christ to eat of the bread of Christ. In other words we are together together so we can be taught by Christ.

So we should not be isolating ourselves from the body of Christ but we should be gathering to partake of the bread of Christ whenever we can. We should not isolate ourselves from our brothers, spending too much of our own time on our own blogs and personal pages and interest, too busy to gather with out brothers who we can find on other forums and sites, eating the bread of Christ together, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together. This is what the memorial symbolizes and this is what matters most, not the literal gathering together, but gathering together to be feed by Christ spiritually."


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MY REPLY:


Thank you for your reference to the symbolic significance of the Memorial event and emblems. I have written talks about that very subject, which were given at this occasion in the years after leaving the WT. You will find them in my blog directory. If you would like to consider some scriptural thoughts about this deep subject, here is an example:

http://pearl-emblems.blogspot.com/

The day I started this Blog site, I posted the header you see at the top of the Main Page today. Included there is 1Cor.10:17, which reads;

"For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread."
Gathering together in unity and harmony with Christ as Head, has been my keen interest since the inception of this site, due to it's being foretold in prophecy.

I must also state though, that even though the foregoing scriptural commands have such a spiritual interpretation, I do not believe that this nullifies the direct physical interpretation. 

For example, 1Cor.6:15 reads:
"Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be!"
While I perceive that this is speaking of spiritual fornication and a symbolic Harlot (such is found at Rev.17&18); that spiritual interpretation does not then nullify the prohibition of fleshly fornication with a literal Harlot, does it?

You say, that despite 1Cor.11:33 and Matt.18:20, that "it does not matter" if the literal emblems are partaken in isolation. How do you conclude such a permission from within these scriptures? Do you have a scripture which directs these two scriptures to be discarded in their physical sense? If not, why would I nullify any aspect of their meaning?

If the literal emblems and Nisan 14 don't matter, why should we partake of the physical emblems at all? If you do partake of them, why not do it as directed?

I agree that loving our brothers to foster unity is not optional (Col.3:14). Yet how does such a mandate necessitate that we nullify scriptural directives concerning the physical manifestation of this occasion? You seem to feel that it is either one or the other. Why can't these scriptures be applied, observed, and obeyed both spiritually and physically? I have no objection to obeying both. Do you?


"Carrying out what that meal symbolizes" 


means dying with Christ (Rom.6:5; Phil.3:10), as he surrendered his life for his brethren (John15:13). He gave his life to teach others the truth (John18:37; 14:6). We share in that life of sacrifice for truth (Rev.6:9; 12:11; 11:7; 14:5; 20:4; Phil.2:17; 2Cor.12:15; Col.1:24; 1Thess.2:8; 2Tim.2:10; etc.). I see the spiritual meaning of the emblems (and partaking of them) as a sharing in the meaning of that sacrifice (John15:20,21; Acts14:22; Matt.24:9; John16:2; Rev.11:8). 

Christ said to perform this occasion, in memory of him and what he gave for us that day (1Cor.5:7; 11:24,26; 1Pet.1:19; John1:29; Rev.5:9,10). He did not say to do it to feed ourselves through debating on various forums, where I have found an unyielding disrespect toward God's Word.

It is Christ himself who "feeds and cherishes" his Chosen congregation (Eph.5:29); and cleanses it by means of God's Word (Eph.5:26; John17:17; 15:3). When each member of that body receives "the proper food at the proper time" from Christ; should they "wait for one another" before they can accept it? (1Cor.11:33)

 Jesus questioned the individual love of Peter, by his willingness to feed Christ's sheep. Christ decides what is fed his sheep, and when. This is called "the proper food at the proper time" (Matt.24:45). I don't see how "wait for one another" before you "eat", applies spiritually. He did not tell Peter..."when your brothers catch up to you and agree with what I taught you...then you can feed the sheep". Some never will "catch up" (2Tim.3:7,8,9).
Should those receiving Holy Spirit's teaching, "wait" to prove their love for Christ, by delaying to feed Christ's sheep with what they have received from him?

There is no need to "gather together" to be taught by Christ. The apostles and prophets learn directly from him (Gal.1:11,12; Rev.11:3,4; Zech.4:11,12,14; 2Pet.1:21; 1Cor.14:32) Christ can teach each of us our place in the body, through the genuine anointing with spirit and the scriptures (1John2:20). What he gives those who remain in union with him is harmonious with what he gives others (Eph.1:10,17,23; 4:5,13; 1Cor.1:12,13). If we share what we are given, it should compliment what others are given. Yet we are taught by Christ, not by men. Those who are apostles, prophets, and teachers, must still teach based upon the cornerstone (Eph.2:20,21); remaining ever vigilant not to base their teachings on a different foundation laid by men (2Cor.11:3,4; Gal.1:7; 2:4; 5:10; 1John2:19).


Dissension within the body is expected (1Cor.11:18,19; Mal.3:18; Luke17:1; 1Tim.4:1; Matt.24:6,10,11,12). According to Christ, "stumbling blocks" from among them (Acts20:30), must come. We do not learn from these, nor will we continue to gather with them, seeking unity at the compromise of what truth Christ has taught us (1Cor.10:21; 2Cor.6:17). If that were permissible, I would still be in the WT Beast, committing spiritual fornication with the GB Harlot!


I will assume that your second paragraph is directed at me, since you wrote it to me.

I will respond to each point.

"So we should not be isolating ourselves from the body of Christ but we should be gathering to partake of the bread of Christ whenever we can."


If you are under the impression that I am isolated from other members of Christ's chosen body, you are mistaken. I do not believe at this point however, that the Memorial should be replaced with a "whenever we can"/want/feel like it/have time ---conferencing/contending/sharing of opinions or perceptions. (Prov.18:2; 26:16; 3:7; 10:8)

The wise are guided exclusively by spirit and God's Word of Truth (John4:23; Ps.119:98)
    In my mind, the Lord's Evening Meal, and chatting on a forum, are two very different situations according to the scriptures. Try to recall the 10 genuine virgins, and the fact that the faithful refused to share their "oil" with the foolish (Matt.25:8,9). While they stood in the dark street at midnight (Matt.25:6), discussing the sharing of spiritual light,
they were not at the Lord's evening meal.

"We should not isolate ourselves from our brothers"


I agree. I never have. I privately communicate in a very personal way with many of them. We are very close and have a strong bond of love. There is a joyous growing of agreement in understanding. Do you assume that I isolate?

I reply to everyone who writes to me, as you can see here. I am easy to approach, as there is a contact form on this page that anyone can use, and many do. I do my best to not neglect anyone. Even though this takes time away from my writing, I know that it is my loving Father's will for me to care for each sheep individually, as well as publish what I was shown. My daily communications through letter responses are evidence that I am in no way isolated, nor are my readers, from me. 
Daily there are searches done on Google for those searching for answers.
Because of my constant efforts here, searching ones (including anointed) can find results, just as my Father wills. 
Just because I do not use my time according to the particular time and place that you wish, does not mean that I have walled myself off from my "brothers".

"spending too much of our own time on our own blogs"


How it is that you see it possible to spend too much time doing the work assigned by Christ,

or consider what I have been given as "mine", 
or my life as "my own time"? (1Cor.4:7; Matt.10:8; 1Cor.6:19,20) I do not view such work as "my own time", other then it is mine to give in the service of my Lord. My blog is the perfect way to do exactly as I have been commanded... to write down what I have been given, and to offer it publicly. Others are free to accept or reject what is offered.
Gal.6:4 reads;
"But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in comparison to another."

Each of us will render an account to the Master, for our own assignment (Matt.25:19; 2Cor.5:10,9; Matt.16:27; Rom.14:10,12). My own work...my own blog. Is there some other method that makes more sense to you?


You don't think I should work at this whole-souled, proving and fulfilling my own assignment? Why?

Whatever your reason, it matters little. My master is Christ. He directs my activity,
and my desire is to obey him (1Cor.7:23; Gal.1:10).

"too much time on...personal pages and interest"


You've lost me. Personal pages? Personal interest? You will have to point these out, because I am not aware of the existence of these. Please follow up with what you mean here.


"too busy to gather with our brothers who we can find on other forums and sites"


First of all, your comment was submitted under "anonymous". I have no idea who you are, nor who your "brothers" are. Jesus said that his brothers were "those who hear God's word and put it into practice." (Luke8:21; John15:14) I am guided by his example (1Pet.2:21; Matt.10:25; Luke17:10; John5:19).

A scarce few conform to this description on the public forums. I do search periodically to find such ones. When I do, and we begin a relationship privately, based upon God's word and it's practice, I do gather with those interested, regularly. It is a joy to do so. I am never too busy with my own interests (?) to give almost all my time to the sharing of truth with others. The only other pursuit that uses my time are necessities for survival. 
The only forums I am no longer on, are those where I was asked to leave, to stop posting, told that what I offered was offensive and unacceptable, or where I was thrown off. The Bible's direction on how to respond to this, is clear.

"other forums and sites, eating the bread of Christ together"


The bread from heaven is not what is commonly found on "forums and sites". Hopefully you know the distinction between our daily heavenly bread from the Father (Matt.6:11; John6:51), and the air ruled by the demons and their human "hated birds" who attack the work of the faithful, and against whom the faithful must wage war (Eph.2:2; 6:12; 2Cor.10:4,5; Rev.18:2; 19:17,18; 17:14; 19:11,14; 12:7). We are not to have a sharing with them (2John1:9,10,11; 1Cor.5:13). I repeatedly try to offer scriptural proofs on forums. Whoever is of God, hears His words (John8:47). Those who don't, are not of God, and are not our brothers in Christ. Those who don't, are certainly not offering the "bread of Christ", who spoke only what His Father gave him (John12:49; 7:16,17,18; Matt.4:4). 


"not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together"


Are you under the impression that I do this? If so, you are again mistaken. 

Yet I do not gather with just anyone. I use the standards of Christ and the apostles in making this choice,
not my own. (Prov.13:20; Psalm119:98; Luke8:21)

This is what the memorial symbolizes and this is what matters most, not the literal gathering together"


As I have said, I do not view this as an "either/or" directive.

We must strive to fulfill the intent of the Memorial symbols,
as well as gather to partake of the physical reminders, just as directed by Christ. 
I see no conflict between these two clear interpretations. I will obey both, just as the scriptures direct. However if you give me scriptural direction to stop following the physical model and command of Christ concerning this occasion, I will certainly consider them.

"but gathering together to be fed by Christ spiritually."


At Rev.3:20 Jesus Christ said,

"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."
How many are eating with Christ in this description Jesus gave?
Do you think this "food" is physical or spiritual?

Matt.10:27 reads;

"What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs."

When we learn directly from Christ during the night, and then we obediently publish it for all to read; we are giving "the proper food at the proper time". The "proper food" is the truth, from Christ. "The proper time" is when he gives it to you.
How does this compare to the spiritual fulfillment of 1Cor.11:33?

Rev.3:20; Matt.10:27; 1John2:27,28; and my own experience,
teaches me that there is no necessity to be "gathering together to be fed by Christ spiritually" if we are a "part" fed directly by him.
It sounds as if you dismiss the differing roles of each body part (1Cor.12:29,27,28; Rom.12:6,7,8). Each one is stationed by God to contribute an integral and necessary part to the welfare of all. (1Cor.12:11,18,19,24,28; 15:23; Eph.4:11,12)
Not all teach. Not all prophesy. (1Cor.12:17) If all believe that they are apostles, or prophets, or teachers, confusion (not unity) is sure to result. "Confusion" is the meaning of "Babylon". Such is not food from Christ.

If you depend upon forums and websites in order to gather spiritual food and you were chosen to be a prophet, you have lost your unity with the Head (John15:4,5) and are resorting to "buying" from those who "sell" (Matt.25:9,10; Rev.13:17). If you have been chosen to be a teacher or latter part of the body (1Cor.12:28), then be certain that those from whom you learn, are true prophets and teachers. Use the scriptural guidance of Christ to discern this. (Matt.7:24,26) 
There is no guarantee that you will find a genuine anointed prophet of Christ, perusing public forums regularly for endless hours, as this is not what Christ has directed them to be doing. I can guarantee that a true prophet will be consumed with their work of publishing the message they were given. This is the end of all things! (1Pet.4:7) That work will include some public preaching on public sites and forums, which I have done much of. 
That work does not include wrangling and arguing with those not interested (Matt.12:19; 15:14), or worse (Luke10:16; 2Tim.3:13; Matt.7:6). 

A leisurely consideration of endless opinions is a luxury which a true prophet cannot afford, if they hope to be found truly faithful with what Christ has directed. (Ec.12:11,12,13; 1Cor.4:6) 

Christ directly provides the nourishing sap of Holy spirit to all his true branches (John15:5; Rom.11:17,18; 1Thess.5:18,19,20,21).
These in turn appreciate the harmonious fruit they discover, which is produced by the other true branches.
Thankfully God knows my limitations. All those (anointed) with whom I associate regularly, found my work from Christ, and wrote to me directly. My current divine assignment is to see to it that the work assigned me can be found,
and that all I have been given will be made available before I am finished.

If you are not interested in observing 1Cor.11:33 and Matt.18:20 along with me on Nisan 14; there is no need to reply. I seek to afford an opportunity to obey the obvious meaning (both physical and spiritual) of those verses for my anointed readers and for myself. I am seeking replies from those of like interest.



2 comments:

  1. John 14:23 In answer Jesus said to him: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him - with the person, the Individual

    John 7:38 Whoever puts faith in me, just as the scripture has said: ‘From deep within him streams of living water [TRUTHS] will flow.’” - from the individual

    John 14:21 Whoever has my commandments and observes [obeys] them is the one who loves me. In turn, whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will clearly show myself to him." - anointing with Holy Spirit

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Such beautful words of our Master. Thank you Paulo.

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