Sunday, December 22, 2013

Whose witnesses are we?

UPDATED

A QUESTION:

Dear Sister,
The Bible tells us that Jesus was the Faithful Witness - Revelation 1:5. Jehovah does not need any MORE witnesses.    
One of the biggest scams of J.F. Rutherford - via the WTBTS - was to adopt the name of Jehovah as marketing tool for his new empire without the disaffected Bible Students. He used one Scripture from the Hebrew Scriptures as justification for the change - Isaiah 43:10.
God's inspired Word gives us 24 Scriptures telling us to be Witnesses of Christ.
There is not ONE Greek Scripture which says we have to be Witnesses for Jehovah.
God called us Christians - Rutherford changed it! (Acts 11:26)
On the basis of the overwhelming Bible proof, why do you claim to be a Witness for Jehovah, instead of Christ Jesus?

MY REPLY:

When someone tells me that there is overwhelming Bible proof against my own expressions of faith, this is not a question. This is a demand to change and align myself with your assertions. Nevertheless, the scriptures tell us to reply to such demands with our own scriptural basis for our hope and conviction. (1Pet.3:15)

In order to do this thoroughly, I will take each of your statements and offer the scriptures that come to mind, which I personally believe are relevant to that statement of yours. If those scriptures do not similarly mold your own faith, at least you will better grasp the motive behind my own decision.

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"Dear Sister, The Bible tells us that Jesus was the Faithful Witness - Revelation 1:5. Jehovah does not need any MORE witnesses."

Yes, Jesus is called the "faithful and true" witness (Rev.3:14).
This is not enough to mean that he is the only witness, any more than you being a man, means that no one else can be a man.
Jesus also was an obedient slave of God (Rom.6:16; John8:29,55 B; Phil.2:7,8; John6:38). His faithful witnessing to truth, was the work of that servitude (John5:30; 18:37; 8:28; 12:49,50; 14:10).

Did Jesus himself refer to any other "faithful" or "true" witnesses, other than himself?
Do others become slaves of God in order to do this same witnessing work?

At Rev.7:3, it speaks of sealing the "slaves of God". 144,000 become so sealed (Rev.14:1)
It is clear that God has slaves other than Christ (Rev.22:3,4; Matt.5:8,12,14,16; 1Pet.2:16).
What is their work? Is it the same faithful witnessing to the truth of God?
Rev.6:9,10,11; 11:3,4; 12:11; 20:4; 14:5; Rom.6:17; Mark13:10; 8:35; Luke12:42,43; 1Cor.4:1,2
helps to answer.

Is it possible that a witness of Jesus can (at the same time) be a witness of God's Word?
(Rev.1:2; 20:4)
Where (according to above scriptures) did Jesus get what he taught?
Jesus was used by God to teach us. When we bear witness to what we learned from Christ, we are also bearing witness to God's truth. Yet according to Christ, it is God who is the real source of all spiritual light and life, that any may witness to (Ps.36:9; John12:49,50; 15:15).
God is the source of all truth. If we teach it, we bear witness to Him.

Jesus died for being a faithful witness to the God of Truth. All those chosen and approved by God, must follow the same course, do the same work, and suffer the same persecution and death for it (Luke22:28; Rev.14:4; 1Pet.2:21; Luke9:22; Rom.6:5; Rev.11:3,7). This victory cannot be accomplished (Rev.2:10; 3:21) if these do not bear witness to both God's Word and Christ (Acts5:28,29).

"One of the biggest scams of J.F. Rutherford - via the WTBTS - was to adopt the name of Jehovah as marketing tool for his new empire without the disaffected Bible Students. He used one Scripture from the Hebrew Scriptures as justification for the change - Isaiah 43:10."

I would first like to say that "Jehovah" is not God's name, but the Hebrew meaning of "hovah" refers to the destroyer (John10:10; Rev.9:11; Isa.33:1). This name was constructed by men. They combined the vowels of Eloham/Adonai (meaning "Lord"), with the vowel-less tetragrammaton. This man-made contrivance does not make it God's name.

When this name was taken by "Jehovah's Witnesses" on the basis of Isa.43:10, that scripture was also misapplied. That verse clearly states that these witnesses are "chosen" ones.

Is it possible that this job was forwarded to those "chosen" under the New Covenant?
Well, if you examine the context of Isa.43:10,
notably Isa.43:21 where it states of these "witnesses"...

"This people I have formed for Myself;
They shall declare My praise."

Are any "chosen" under the New Covenant, to be "formed into a people", for the purpose of  "declaring" God's "praise"?
1Pet.2:9 reads:
"But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light".

"Declaring" God's praise, is witnessing for God, just as clearly established by Isa.43:10,21.
Apparently, when we are told that the 144000 serve as priests under the new covenant, this is not an idle job (Mal.2:7), but mimics the shadow of those under the old covenant (Heb.8:5), in their being witnesses for God.
The point is also made, that unless all of "Jehovah's Witnesses" are chosen priests of the 144000, they bear the title falsely. This constitutes blasphemy, just as the prophecies about this Organization depict.

        It is also noteworthy, that according to prophecy,
        it is the nation called by God's name,
        that stands condemned (Jer.25:29,30) (Rev.19:15; Isa.63:3);
        ...although that is not to say that the nation called by God's name
        is "Jehovah's Witnesses". This condemnation is toward the
        genuine nation (chosen) who are called by His name (Isa.43:10; 1Pet.2:9).

"God's inspired Word gives us 24 Scriptures telling us to be Witnesses of Christ."

Does this mean that they are not witnesses of God as well?
If you learn from a Master teacher, and then you teach others his knowledge...
if your students also teach this knowledge...
whose knowledge are they teaching...
Their own?...Yours?...or your teacher's?
In fact any who learn, then own the knowledge themselves. It is theirs.
But it belonged to others before you. These passed it on to you.
Can you not teach the same knowledge that you learned?
When your students teach,
they are witnessing to their own acquired knowledge.
At the same time, they are bearing witness to you and what you taught them,
and they are bearing witness to the Master teacher who taught you.
Whose knowledge are they promoting? Is it not the knowledge of both you and your teacher?

Have you not heard that when it comes to truth,
Jesus and the Father are One? Chosen priests can also be one with that same truth (John16:15; 17:6,7,8,17,21,22,23,25,26). There is one truth (John14:6; Eph.4:5). It is sourced with God the Father. It is not possible to divide that truth into belonging to Christ but not belonging to the Father. It is impossible to bear faithful witness to truth as a chosen priest, without bearing witness to both, God and Christ.
If we bear witness to the truth taught by Christ, we must be bearing witness to the Word of God, which is clearly who Christ was (John1:1,14), and what Christ was teaching.

"There is not ONE Greek Scripture which says we have to be Witnesses for Jehovah."

Although there are many, I think 1Pet.2:9; 4:10; 1Cor.4:1; 9:17; Heb.4:12; Eph.6:17,18; Rev.7:15; Rom.12:1; 2Cor.3:5,6; 1Cor.12:18,11,28; Rom.12:6; Eph.4:11,12 suffices for those of discernment.

"God called us Christians - Rutherford changed it! (Acts 11:26)"

   (First it should be noted, that not all who are disciples of Christ,
    are chosen priests. Therefore, the label of "Christian" is anyone who
    is baptized in water and is obedient to the teachings of Christ (Matt.28:19,20).
    The chosen are baptized with Holy Spirit, and are to feed the Christian sheep "fruit".
    (Acts1:4,5; John1:33,34; John21:17; 1John2:20,27; John15:4,5,8,15; Matt.7:20)

God calls Christ himself many things
(Isa.9:6; Matt.1:23; Phil.2:9; Rev.19:12,13,16; 12:7 etc.)
He also calls his "chosen" sons by many titles
(Acts11:26; Gal.3:26,29; 1Pet.2:5,9,10; Heb.12:22,23; 1Cor.3:9,16; Gal.4:28; Rom.2:28,29; Rev.1:5,20; 3:12; 2:17).
I'm afraid your perspective is much too narrow to be able to accommodate the whole truth, which according to the Bible, is much wider than what you have restricted yourself to, in allowing only two "either/or" possibilities. In the boundaries of that mental restriction, you are prevented from a fuller understanding, which has resulted in your making wrong conclusions.

We can use an illustration Jesus himself gave us to clarify all this.
Jesus described how the producing of praise/witnessing is accomplished.
Jesus is the "vine"/root; his chosen ones are the "branches", and the spiritual fruit this "Grapevine" produces, is to be consumed for spiritual sustainance. The fruit is the teachings/witnessing (Heb.13:15; John15:8). The praise and glorification is "to God", "through Christ".
Christ also told us, that this "grapevine" has a cultivator (John15:1,2)...God.
So then,
Who is responsible for the grapes/witness, that are produced?
Is it not the cultivator, the vine, and the branches?
Do you see that all are?
The fruit produced reflects on all....the cultivor, the vine, and the branches.
All deserve credit for the witness that is produced, and the result, bears testimony to it's full source.
When a grape harvest is perfect, that fruit bears witness to it's vine AND it's cultivator.

The abomination being committed here, is not that genuine witnesses are called Christians, or that Christians are also known as witnesses for God;
The abomination is that those genuine witnesses have been replaced with counterfeit false witnesses,
that the genuine Temple has been handed over and trampled by counterfeit Jewish priests (Gentiles) who throw truth to the ground, and that God's Mount Zion has been replaced by a man-made Organizational "Image"/Idol.
(pearl-disgustingthing.blogspot.com)

(http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/02/jehovahs-genuine-mountain.html)

None of the scriptures you offer, state that those chosen to bear witness to God's praise (and to bear witness to Jesus), are not to be witnesses for God.
According to the scriptures, bearing witness to truth is naturally bearing witness to both, Christ and God.

"On the basis of the overwhelming Bible proof, why do you claim to be a Witness for Jehovah, instead of Christ Jesus?"

Again, who is the source of what Jesus taught?
(And the source of what Christians teach?
What source of knowledge are they bearing witness to?)
(John8:28; James1:17; 1John1:5; Eph.1:17; Ps.36:9; Matt.5:16)

I have no idea where you heard that I am not a witness of Christ's teachings, his name, and his testimony.
I  never said that I was a witness of Yhwh "instead" of Christ.
Where did you hear this? Whoever told this to you is a liar.

No one can come to the truth of the Father,
unless it is through the Son. No one can get to the Son,
unless the Father draws them by His spirit.
Once drawn, we bear witness to what that Holy Spirit has given us from God.
(Rom.8:14,15,16,17; John4:24; 14:16,17; 1John4:1,2,3,4,5,6; Matt.10:20).

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God will have witnesses as long as those chosen to be such are in the earth. There is no other way for the chosen to prove faithful. They will be in the earth "until all things have occurred". Jesus himself bore witness about God, not about himself.
(John7:16,17,18; 8:19,28,42,47; 1Pet.2:21)
We are to imitate him.
All which Jesus offers us as bread from heaven, was given him from the Father.
Jesus left us a model to imitate closely. He was a faithful and true witness for his Father, from whom he received all he gave us.

Jesus once declared his desire, that none consider him a good teacher, but rather the Father (Luke18:18,19).
Why?
Because Jesus only taught what the Father directed as the ultimate teacher of all, who, according to Christ, is the one who deserves all the credit.

When we do give God the due credit (and declare His Word), this is the essence of being His witnesses. If we bear witness to Jesus,
are we not bearing witness to God?
If we bear witness to God, are we not bearing witness to truth from the "Word"?
He gave to Christ all that Jesus taught.
Christ came to explain God (John1:18; 17:26; 14:8,9,10,12). Why? Should we keep quiet about what we have learned about God from Christ?
Should we not imitate Christ, by bearing witness about God?

The book of Revelation contains many declarations, which are made, not by Christ, but by Revelation's "angel" messengers. You may benefit from a further consideration of who these "angel" messengers are, who bear witness
to God  (Rev.14:6,7).


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