Saturday, January 12, 2013

When do the 12 apostles judge the twelve tribes?

Good day sister D
 Thank you so much for sharing that with me, i can just imagine how that makes you feel. You are truly Jehovah's chosen vessel, clay in His hands, letting him do with you what he pleases.
 As usual i have been following your letters with interest and i drew a couple of points from the letter you posted yesterday:-

 Matt 19:27, 28 - does that mean that the apostles were resurrected when Jesus received the rulership from his father Jehovah in 33 CE and have been judging the invited ones since then?


Here is the scripture you reference...
Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne,you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Your question:
Matt 19:27, 28 - does that mean that the apostles were resurrected when Jesus received the rulership from his father Jehovah in 33 CE and have been judging the invited ones since then?

  Likely Peter did not yet realize that all anointed would have to leave "everything to follow" Christ (Luke9:23; Mark8:34)...not just the apostles. He also may not have yet realized, that these twelve apostles, as such, (1Cor.12:28,29) would occupy "first" place in the rank of the entire anointed body of Christ.
(When Jesus told them that they would judge the tribes of Israel, they may have been thinking "fleshly" Israel. Gal.4:25)
All other parts of the Israel of God, would be in subjection to these who are "first".
This is demonstrated, when all anointed "parts" of Christ's body, subject themselves to the Greek scriptures, which were written largely by these 12.
Jesus here tells Peter, exactly how these would be "first". He says that they will "judge" the "tribes of Israel". These twelve are the main part of the "foundation" of the Holy City (Eph.2:19,20; 3:5; Rev.21:14); and they determine all those to be "built up" upon them/their foundation (1Cor.3:9,10; Eph.2:21). Those tribes that were to come, are referred to in Rev.7:4. There it speaks of those who attain a seal to become established as part of the 12 tribes of the 144,000, built upon the "foundation" of the 12 apostles.

As stated at Rev.7:4, these are sealed from among the twelve tribes. In other words, those being selected, are from a pool of the twelve tribes of spiritual Jews (Rom.2:29; Gal.3:29), people in Covenant with God..."Israelites" (Gal.6:15,16). They have all been offered a promise from God....That should they prove faithful and endure to the end, they will become sealed heirs with Christ. (1Cor.4:1,2; Matt.24:13)
Not all who are bought with Christ's blood (Rev.5:9,10) succeed in winning that race (1Cor.9:24,25; Luke21:36; Matt.24:13; Mark.8:35; Rev.3:11; 2Pet.2:1; Matt.22:14). Who will judge the winners of the seal? Here Jesus tells the twelve apostles, that it will be them. These choose whom they adopt for their own tribe... Just as the 12 sons of Jacob/fleshly Israel, had a tribe of sons under each of them.
When do the twelve begin this job of judging the candidates....which started to be chosen in the first century, up until our present time? I tell you that at this time, I do not fully know. But there are in my mind, a few possibilities. I hope you will consider them....

First possibility...if the apostles rest in their grave until the end...this would mean that they would need to be conscious for the judging of the last chosen ones...the remnant to come out of the Great Tribulation. Judging those who preceded the remnant, would not have to be judged during the time in which they lived, because their record of deeds could be brought up and judged at the same time that the remnant are being judged. The final ones could not be sealed without the conscious presence of the apostles, because if they are to judge the 12 tribes....these could not all be sealed without their passing judgment.

Second possibility...Jesus said that many living during his era would not see death at all. We are also told that many pass directly from death to life....a living condition in spirit. Other men of faith are also mentioned as "living" to Jehovah. These are in the "memorial tombs". But Ec.9:5,6 tells us that the "living" are conscious that they will die; but as for the "dead" "the remembrance of them is forgotten". Although we have been previous taught by the WT that this is applied physically, I see it as spiritual......

"For the living know that they will die,
    but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
    and even their name is forgotten.
  Their love, their hate
    and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
    in anything that happens under the sun."

These "dead" are "forgotten". I suspect they are not in the "memorial tombs" awaiting resurrection (John5:28,29).
As these verses state..."they have no further reward" and "never again will they have a part in anything".
I strongly suspect that in God's eyes, they were spiritually dead, and have no future reward, nor life, under God's Kingdom. (Col.2:13; Eph.2:1; 1Tim.5:6).
Those deemed as worthy of a place in God's memory, (viewed by Him as good as living); seem capable of physical death. As Ec.9:5 stated, "the "living" are conscious that they will die".
So we see it is likely that those who were faithful before Christ died (in every sense), although saved in God's memory for a future time, when they would be "made perfect" through a future City prepared for them (Heb.11:13,16,39,40), did indeed "die".

My point is that up until the apostles, faithful men died and became unconscious.
What about after Jesus came?
John11:25,26 reads...
"Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

This riddle contains our answer, as to whether the apostles transferred from physical life to spiritual life, without ever dying. If so, it would enable them to judge invited anointed, during the period in which each of those anointed ones lived.
Please also consider John6:47,50,51,58; John8:51; John5:24; 1John3:14 which show that not only may the apostles have never died, all faithful anointed attain this life. See also 1Cor.15:20-26...

"But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, those who belong to him at his presence. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death."
"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the Thousand Years has ended" (Rev.20:5)
This last enemy death, is not fully destroyed until all are resurrected to life. This is not talking about the first resurrection of the priests and kings, who are said to get life first. (Rev.20:4,6)

We know that Christ's "presence" with his anointed, started in the first century and was promised to last until the end (see Matt.28:20 B)...
" And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

From all these foregoing scriptures, it would seem that anointed faithful are transferred into living spirit, even while they are still living their physical lifetimes. When they die they are "changed" in the twinkle of an eye, but "never die" (John11:26).
Note 1Cor.15:50-55...
"I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
    Where, O death, is your sting?”

The "sleep" referred to here is the state of temporary death (John11:11,12,13).
Paul is saying that not all will fall asleep in death. Yet clearly....some will (Remember John11:25,26 ?)
Jesus said that those who "believe in him, though he dies, will live".
And of another group, "and whoever lives by believing in me will never die"
I see two groups....
1. Those already born of "incorruptible seed" (1Pet.1:23; John1:13; James1:18; 1Pet.1:3; 1John3:9) will never die,
    but have already "passed over, from death to life"
2. Those who have faith in Christ, but have not been anointed by Holy Spirit. These must await the second resurrection,
    to occur in the future.

Why then does Paul refer to the first resurrection as occurring "at the last trumpet"?
We must remain open to the possibility, that this may not occur according to human physical timing.

The "seven trumpets" correspond to seven eyes/spirits of God, and the seven times. These things occur in the life of each anointed who become sealed. They represent a gamut of tests and a growth in understanding, refinement, maturity, enlightenment, and purging of sinful flesh.
I personally remain open to this arrival of the "seventh trumpet", as being within the heart of each sealed one.....just as the arrival of the daystar is (2Pet.1:19; 1Pet.1:22,23); which according to vision given me, occurs at the end of the "seven times". Each time carries with it, a symbolic "milestone" of accomplishment, within the heart of each anointed one, until they reach the full maturity of Christ (Eph.4:13; Heb.5:14; 1Cor.2:6). did the twelve apostles judge each anointed one to be invited throughout time?
While I am not positively sure at this time, I hope the scriptures I have shared with you help you to see a good possibility, that anointed may not fall asleep in death if they become sealed, but rather they attain spirit life now. If this is the case...the apostles could easily judge each anointed one to follow them.
If the first resurrection does not occur until a future common "seventh trumpet", when all will be raised at the same time chronologically and physically; then however and whenever the apostles do their judging of those sealed;
all scripture will be fulfilled and proven true.
If Holy Spirit widens my understanding of this, I will post more on the subject.
Thanks for your good question,


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